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kimba 06-03-2014 04:31 PM

It all depends
 

Originally Posted by own nav (Post 1657390)
Recommending Great Lakes now?

First of all what's wrong with Great Lakes? Have you ever been there? I haven't, so I don't express opinion of a company that I don't know.

Lakes, today, is looking for pilot with 500tt and 20 multi (desired) according by the ad that was on the website findapilot.com.

In order to build 1200 for AMF or ATP min in order to apply to a regional you generally have two option, CFI for a part 141 school, so that you can build time fast, but they pay 15-20$ an hour or go for several jobs around, flight time and pay are really variable.
So the point is, if you are willing to make 15$/hr flying as a CFI why not making the same money flying a TURBINE plane multi crew, operating both part 135 and 121 logging 100hrs a month?
For low time people I'd suggest a talk to Lakes recruiter.

How good is the company? I don't know.

kimba 06-03-2014 04:36 PM

The right attitude
 

Originally Posted by KSCessnaDriver (Post 1657462)
Hey Kimba, who ****ed in your breakfast cereal? We get it, you felt like you were lied to about the company. You've made your point, why do you keep going on like a broken record about the whole thing. My guess is you didn't quit from AMF, but were probably fired because you couldn't cut it.

I'm sorry to disappoint you but I've been fired by AMF.
Actually none has ever fired me but all the other jobs I did gave me a letter of recommendation. Yes, I already have the three letters that some major would like to have (delta).
The king of aggressive attitude you show here when someone express an opinion different from yours is exactly the AMF attitude!
You better do what you are told to do or the reaction will be aggressive and offensive.
The more I see your post the more I'm happy I didn't belong there.
And for the people out there who are still thinking to apply
STAY AWAY FROM AMF!!!

kimba 06-03-2014 04:54 PM

From southwest website
 

Originally Posted by Gjn290 (Post 1657434)
The importance of TPIC will always remain a heated debate. One thing is certain, it will never hurt you if you have it. Can you say the same if you don't?

This is a copy and paste from SW website today.

2 PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot in Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged as "Other Time" will not be considered.

If you read the whole thing, they consider Primary flight time only after you upgrade in the appropriate aircraft. I may be wrong but the way I see it is what I've been saying for days taking **** from everybody!
Turbine PIC that matters is when you upgrade, not when you are the pilot in command of your self!:confused:
By the way, the website doesn't say it, but southwest doesn't give you an interview if you don't have ALSO a 737 type rating that for sure you won't get at AMF and you won't be able to pay it out of your pocket considering the money you'll make.

Back to the pay, I'll put my broken disk again, if AMF is the best in what they do, why they hire a turbine PIC to pay him/her less than a SIC on a turbine flying the same kind of plane in a part 135?
Do you want a turbine PIC? Pay turbine PIC!

For the upgrade to the metroliner or whatever they promise, those are only promises and the relative paycheck is a promise as well. Reality is that a company upgrades pilot only when they need it and not when the recruiter said during the interview process. Than after you upgrade, you'll start as a reserve, like in all the company, so even this logging time will be very variable.

As I said in my broken disk, recruiters are recruiters! They do their job, DONT BE FOOLED!!!

kimba 06-03-2014 04:56 PM

Sharing my experience
 

Originally Posted by own nav (Post 1657491)
I say let him keep ranting. He does plenty to discredit himself.

If pilots are really persuaded by what he's saying, I'm not sure they'd fit in at AMF anyway.

I don't work as a recruiter and I don't care what people do.
If my words are stronger than a recruiter's....
I'm just sharing my experience and my opinion, so that people applying AMF can make it with a little bit more info than the ones I had when I applied.

frmrbuffdrvr 06-03-2014 05:42 PM


Originally Posted by kimba (Post 1657642)
This is a copy and paste from SW website today.

2 PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot in Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged as "Other Time" will not be considered.

If you read the whole thing, they consider Primary flight time only after you upgrade in the appropriate aircraft. I may be wrong but the way I see it is what I've been saying for days taking **** from everybody!

And again you show you have no idea what you are talking about. As a former military pilot, in a crew aircraft, I will explain. On a military run sheet, the aircraft commander (captain in the civilian world) signs for the aircraft. In the logged time columns, there is FP (First Pilot) and SP (Second Pilot.) The FP is the pilot manipulating the controls (Pilot Flying in civilian crew language) and the SP is similar to the Pilot Monitoring. Since this is how the military flight time print out shows the flight time, SWA is clarifying for military pilots who may have little civilian experience that they only count PIC time when you have signed for the airplane (Part 61 PIC) and not just when you were the manipulator of the controls.


Turbine PIC that matters is when you upgrade, not when you are the pilot in command of your self!:confused:
Not sure how that is confusing. If you are the pic (which every CAPTAIN at AMF is) it is PIC time. And if it is in a turbine aircraft, it is turbine PIC.


By the way, the website doesn't say it, but southwest doesn't give you an interview if you don't have ALSO a 737 type rating that for sure you won't get at AMF and you won't be able to pay it out of your pocket considering the money you'll make.
Wrong. The requirement to have a 737 type to GET an interview at SWA went out the window many years ago. Now, if they decide to HIRE you, you have to get your type rating before you show up for class. And, of course as in any interview situation, the more blocks you have checked off above the minimums will give you a better shot at getting the interview against others who do or don't have those boxes.


Back to the pay, I'll put my broken disk again, if AMF is the best in what they do, why they hire a turbine PIC to pay him/her less than a SIC on a turbine flying the same kind of plane in a part 135?
Do you want a turbine PIC? Pay turbine PIC!
You're right. There are lots of King Air part 135 PIC jobs and most of them pay more than AMF. But most of them also require 2000-2500 hours total and a lot require 500 hours in type. How are you going to get those jobs when you are sitting at 1200-1400 hours?

Oh, yeah. Maybe at AMF??


For the upgrade to the metroliner or whatever they promise, those are only promises and the relative paycheck is a promise as well. Reality is that a company upgrades pilot only when they need it and not when the recruiter said during the interview process. Than after you upgrade, you'll start as a reserve, like in all the company, so even this logging time will be very variable.

As I said in my broken disk, recruiters are recruiters! They do their job, DONT BE FOOLED!!!
Again, I have to agree with you. There is no guarantee that you will get into a metro in 4-6 months. Part of that is that if you are starting in a BE99 at 1200 hours and 50 ME, in 4-6 months you will have 1400 hours and 250 ME and you are no where near READY to handle an SA227 single pilot. Heck, I have heard pilots at other companies who think we are insane to even OPERATE metroliners single pilot. But having been through our training program, I feel very comfortable flying it single pilot.

Now, if you come in with 1600 hours and a couple hundred turbine already, then, with the people moving up to other companies right now (fractionals, corporate, etc.) then you can easily bid to a metro or BE1900. And the pay is no false promise. You can check on this web site and see the pay scale. First year metro is $40K minimum.

And I can't speak for other bases, but in Dallas, reserve is actually the SENIOR position, not junior.

DasSchwerin 06-03-2014 05:52 PM

I'm currently a 1900 TDY pilot. Upgraded from the chieftain to the 1900 2 months ago. Easily making over $1000 a month extra just from TDY pay. The company has also been good about providing good hotels and had been providing rental cars for me at times when stuck at a crappy outstation for a weekend. I originally came to ameriflight because I wasn't old enough for the regionals and I'm glad I did. While not a career location it's been a good experience so far. As far as kimba and his "being captain of yourself " stuff, I've had an FO more often than not and it's been a positive experience .

Gjn290 06-03-2014 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by kimba (Post 1657627)
First of all what's wrong with Great Lakes? Have you ever been there? I haven't, so I don't express opinion of a company that I don't know.

Lakes, today, is looking for pilot with 500tt and 20 multi (desired) according by the ad that was on the website findapilot.com.

In order to build 1200 for AMF or ATP min in order to apply to a regional you generally have two option, CFI for a part 141 school, so that you can build time fast, but they pay 15-20$ an hour or go for several jobs around, flight time and pay are really variable.
So the point is, if you are willing to make 15$/hr flying as a CFI why not making the same money flying a TURBINE plane multi crew, operating both part 135 and 121 logging 100hrs a month?
For low time people I'd suggest a talk to Lakes recruiter.

How good is the company? I don't know.

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start. You continuously rant on and on about how terrible the pay at AMF is, yet Great Lakes pays captains far less than AMF pay. This statement alone completely disbands any argument you have about pay at AMF along with most of your credibility, well what's left at least.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the 500 hours TT and 20 ME must be for FO's, right? Surely they aren't hiring PIC's with only 500 TT into the B1900. If they are then there is an accident waiting to happen.


Originally Posted by kimba (Post 1657631)
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I've been fired by AMF.
Actually none has ever fired me but all the other jobs I did gave me a letter of recommendation. Yes, I already have the three letters that some major would like to have (delta).
The king of aggressive attitude you show here when someone express an opinion different from yours is exactly the AMF attitude!
You better do what you are told to do or the reaction will be aggressive and offensive.
The more I see your post the more I'm happy I didn't belong there.
And for the people out there who are still thinking to apply
STAY AWAY FROM AMF!!!

I'm a little confused on this one. Which one is it? You were fired from AMF or you weren't? You say you were and then you say none have ever fired you? I'm assuming you mean you've never been fired.

You have three letters of recommendations for Delta? Are they from Delta Pilots? If not they probably won't help you much. If they are, as soon as delta sees your poor use of the english language, along with your lacking critical thinking skills, you probably do not stand much of a chance.

The aggressive attitude your receiving is a result of your unwillingness to listen to anything anybody has to say.


Originally Posted by kimba (Post 1657642)
This is a copy and paste from SW website today.

2 PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot in Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged as "Other Time" will not be considered.

If you read the whole thing, they consider Primary flight time only after you upgrade in the appropriate aircraft. I may be wrong but the way I see it is what I've been saying for days taking **** from everybody!
Turbine PIC that matters is when you upgrade, not when you are the pilot in command of your self!:confused:
By the way, the website doesn't say it, but southwest doesn't give you an interview if you don't have ALSO a 737 type rating that for sure you won't get at AMF and you won't be able to pay it out of your pocket considering the money you'll make.

Back to the pay, I'll put my broken disk again, if AMF is the best in what they do, why they hire a turbine PIC to pay him/her less than a SIC on a turbine flying the same kind of plane in a part 135?
Do you want a turbine PIC? Pay turbine PIC!

For the upgrade to the metroliner or whatever they promise, those are only promises and the relative paycheck is a promise as well. Reality is that a company upgrades pilot only when they need it and not when the recruiter said during the interview process. Than after you upgrade, you'll start as a reserve, like in all the company, so even this logging time will be very variable.

As I said in my broken disk, recruiters are recruiters! They do their job, DONT BE FOOLED!!!

Trust me I am more than familiar with the smoke and mirrors game that recruiters like to play, after all that's what they get paid for. However, I personally know someone that was offered the Metro after 6 month on property.

You're reading comprehension skills also leave much to be desired. I read everything on the Southwest website. A 737 type rating is NOT required for an applicant to interview. If the applicant passes the interview the applicant then has six months to get a 737 type.
1 A Candidate may apply without a B-737 Type Rating. If a candidate interviews and successfully completes the entire selection process, he/she has six months from the date to obtain a B-737 Type Rating to be eligible for hire.

The PIC time is broken down the way it is on the website to stop people from logging PIC time from the right seat when they are pilot flying and are checked out and rated in the appropriate category and class. They want the person who actually signed for the aircraft, the one who has final authority over safety of flight.

If they way you put it is true then how on earth would any single seat fighter pilot be able to get a job at Southwest? :confused:
I happened to have met quite a few SWA pilots that were F16 drivers.

USMCFLYR 06-03-2014 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by kimba (Post 1657642)
This is a copy and paste from SW website today.

2 PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot in Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged as "Other Time" will not be considered.

If you read the whole thing, they consider Primary flight time only after you upgrade in the appropriate aircraft. I may be wrong but the way I see it is what I've been saying for days taking **** from everybody!
Turbine PIC that matters is when you upgrade, not when you are the pilot in command of your self!:confused:

OUCH! That was actually painful to read.

Yes - - your understanding of Southwest's requirements are wrong.
You misunderstand the details in the statement in the manner they are applied to applicants with a military background.

Edit: Sorry - someone else already pointed out the misunderstanding.
Btw - Great Lakes is rumored (known?) to be the worse paying P121 (and now partially P135) outfit out there and you are just building SIC time. Yes - for a time being I'd rather be buildnig TPIC time and making more money while waiting for that move to the regionals or other job to continue the trek to your ultimate goal in aviation.

kimba 06-03-2014 07:30 PM

Thanks for the clarification
 

Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 1657678)
And again you show you have no idea what you are talking about. As a former military pilot, in a crew aircraft, I will explain. On a military run sheet, the aircraft commander (captain in the civilian world) signs for the aircraft. In the logged time columns, there is FP (First Pilot) and SP (Second Pilot.) The FP is the pilot manipulating the controls (Pilot Flying in civilian crew language) and the SP is similar to the Pilot Monitoring. Since this is how the military flight time print out shows the flight time, SWA is clarifying for military pilots who may have little civilian experience that they only count PIC time when you have signed for the airplane (Part 61 PIC) and not just when you were the manipulator of the controls.

Thanks for the clarification I red it in a different way.

Not sure how that is confusing. If you are the pic (which every CAPTAIN at AMF is) it is PIC time. And if it is in a turbine aircraft, it is turbine PIC.



Wrong. The requirement to have a 737 type to GET an interview at SWA went out the window many years ago. Now, if they decide to HIRE you, you have to get your type rating before you show up for class. And, of course as in any interview situation, the more blocks you have checked off above the minimums will give you a better shot at getting the interview against others who do or don't have those boxes.

You are right that in order to have an interview at SW a 737 type rating is not a requirements but you have to have it within 6 months from the interview.
An FO just hired at SW told me that even if it's not written when he went for the interview all the candidates had a 737 type rating already.

You're right. There are lots of King Air part 135 PIC jobs and most of them pay more than AMF. But most of them also require 2000-2500 hours total and a lot require 500 hours in type. How are you going to get those jobs when you are sitting at 1200-1400 hours?

Oh, yeah. Maybe at AMF??

Not really because if they want 2000 total you can make it at any company, if they need time in a King Air.... AMF doesn't have King Air.
The only one they have belongs to the ex owner of the company.


Again, I have to agree with you. There is no guarantee that you will get into a metro in 4-6 months. Part of that is that if you are starting in a BE99 at 1200 hours and 50 ME, in 4-6 months you will have 1400 hours and 250 ME and you are no where near READY to handle an SA227 single pilot. Heck, I have heard pilots at other companies who think we are insane to even OPERATE metroliners single pilot. But having been through our training program, I feel very comfortable flying it single pilot.

Now, if you come in with 1600 hours and a couple hundred turbine already, then, with the people moving up to other companies right now (fractionals, corporate, etc.) then you can easily bid to a metro or BE1900. And the pay is no false promise. You can check on this web site and see the pay scale. First year metro is $40K minimum.

That's all based on the fact that you upgrade so fast as they say, what if you are stuck on the chieftain for months? What happens to the 1000 on turbine within two years?

And I can't speak for other bases, but in Dallas, reserve is actually the SENIOR position, not junior.

That's great for the senior guys, generally you start as a reserve.

kimba 06-03-2014 07:33 PM

TDY is not per diem
 

Originally Posted by DasSchwerin (Post 1657688)
I'm currently a 1900 TDY pilot. Upgraded from the chieftain to the 1900 2 months ago. Easily making over $1000 a month extra just from TDY pay. The company has also been good about providing good hotels and had been providing rental cars for me at times when stuck at a crappy outstation for a weekend. I originally came to ameriflight because I wasn't old enough for the regionals and I'm glad I did. While not a career location it's been a good experience so far. As far as kimba and his "being captain of yourself " stuff, I've had an FO more often than not and it's been a positive experience .

Any company pays or should pay TDY when they need you to do something but regionals also pay per diem.
The fact that you are getting TDY, hotel and rent a car is not exactly anything special.

If flying with an FO is such a great experience, what happens to all the good about single pilot turbine PIC?


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