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Hand Commander 06-03-2014 10:28 PM

Okay, I have read this thread for too long and now I have to jump in. First off, Kimba (shaking my head). Wow. I've been at AMF for longer than I had originally planned on staying and longer than I care to share. I came with a fair amount of turbine experience and much more total time than ATP mins. My resume was lacking in a few areas so I came here to become a better all around pilot and prove to myself I could fly instruments, old school style. To each their own, but the regionals never and WILL never appeal to me so I chose the amf route, as I thought it would fit well with my situation. Hopefully I can clarify a couple of things for people interested:

I'm at a "senior" base. The last 4 or 5 pilots that have transferred in from other bases came in as 99 drivers and all were upgraded to the Metro in less than 6 months. A few of those guys have already moved on to other things. We are shorthanded now and will be in even worse shape in a couple of months. Metro upgrades will be VERY fast for those with the mins. 1900's are a little harder to get since there are half as many, but even those slots are being vacated and will be available quickly. If you're willing to move, you can quickly (probably a year to year and a half, depending on location) achieve that "magic" 1000 Hrs TPIC that everyone is so concerned with.

The TDY pilot is correct. Holding a normal route and with extra flying, I've never made less than 50k as a type rated captain. Become a training captain (nice on the resume), you'll make more. Not going to get rich, but its a decent paycheck, depending on where you live. If you go on the road TDY for the company, the per diem and extra paid days add up and I would expect to make closer to 60k. Granted, you'll be living in hotels for most of the year, but if you want to fly your butt off and build turbine time as well as make WAAAAAY more than a regional FO, its worth looking into. I did it for a bit. It was fun if you're single...

AMF is totally what you make of it. I made it through the financial crisis unscathed, while many a regional pilot came aboard and flew a chieftain until they were called back. I received my ATP for free as well as my first type rating. More importantly, I have a good quality of life. I get to participate in my favorite hobbies during the downtime, pretty much everyday. I've completed my degree during the downtime.

Its not a perfect company, but its not dangerous or scary or illegal. The long days can wear on people and the weather can suck, but the planes, although lacking nice paint(or any for that matter), work well and are maintained well.

I'm looking to move on myself as AMF has peaked for me as far as experience building goes and I would like to continue to progress further in aviation. At this point, I'm still not interested in chasing a 121 seniority number and I'm not willing to take much of a pay cut nor move very far for the next job. I guess by those standards, I'm not in any huge hurry:D Good luck to everyone and have fun!

kimba 06-03-2014 10:41 PM


Originally Posted by Hand Commander (Post 1657814)
Okay, I have read this thread for too long and now I have to jump in. First off, Kimba (shaking my head). Wow. I've been at AMF for longer than I had originally planned on staying and longer than I care to share. I came with a fair amount of turbine experience and much more total time than ATP mins. My resume was lacking in a few areas so I came here to become a better all around pilot and prove to myself I could fly instruments, old school style. To each their own, but the regionals never and WILL never appeal to me so I chose the amf route, as I thought it would fit well with my situation. Hopefully I can clarify a couple of things for people interested:

I'm at a "senior" base. The last 4 or 5 pilots that have transferred in from other bases came in as 99 drivers and all were upgraded to the Metro in less than 6 months. A few of those guys have already moved on to other things. We are shorthanded now and will be in even worse shape in a couple of months. Metro upgrades will be VERY fast for those with the mins. 1900's are a little harder to get since there are half as many, but even those slots are being vacated and will be available quickly. If you're willing to move, you can quickly (probably a year to year and a half, depending on location) achieve that "magic" 1000 Hrs TPIC that everyone is so concerned with.

The TDY pilot is correct. Holding a normal route and with extra flying, I've never made less than 50k as a type rated captain. Become a training captain (nice on the resume), you'll make more. Not going to get rich, but its a decent paycheck, depending on where you live. If you go on the road TDY for the company, the per diem and extra paid days add up and I would expect to make closer to 60k. Granted, you'll be living in hotels for most of the year, but if you want to fly your butt off and build turbine time as well as make WAAAAAY more than a regional FO, its worth looking into. I did it for a bit. It was fun if you're single...

AMF is totally what you make of it. I made it through the financial crisis unscathed, while many a regional pilot came aboard and flew a chieftain until they were called back. I received my ATP for free as well as my first type rating. More importantly, I have a good quality of life. I get to participate in my favorite hobbies during the downtime, pretty much everyday. I've completed my degree during the downtime.

Its not a perfect company, but its not dangerous or scary or illegal. The long days can wear on people and the weather can suck, but the planes, although lacking nice paint(or any for that matter), work well and are maintained well.

I'm looking to move on myself as AMF has peaked for me as far as experience building goes and I would like to continue to progress further in aviation. At this point, I'm still not interested in chasing a 121 seniority number and I'm not willing to take much of a pay cut nor move very far for the next job. I guess by those standards, I'm not in any huge hurry:D Good luck to everyone and have fun!

I'm glad you had your good experience and I wish you the best.
The money that you are talking about are not the money you start with, but the one you make when and if the company needs you to upgrade and as you said if you are always on the road for the company, that lead me to ask how good was your quality of life when you were flying your butt off. Plus you were flying as a PIC training capt on TDY in a part 135 company, do you really think that you were paid appropriately? I don't think a pilot with your qualification makes 50k in a part 135 company.
Of course if you have never been attracted by a part 121 you'll prefer AMF by far, but you don't have both experience like I have.
Unfortunately you can see the difference not when you are in a company but when you leave one for another one and you can make a comparison.
My question is: if AMF is such a great place to work, why all this movement? Why so many pilots are leaving? Why pilot leave AMF to go regionals?

kimba 06-03-2014 10:43 PM


Originally Posted by DasSchwerin (Post 1657803)
Maybe you wouldn't consider it "per diem" in the traditional sense but on the expense reports it says "per diem". If your talking about the TDY pay of $35 a day then that's what I mean when I say per diem. TDY also pays 8 units every day your away on assignment according to the employee handbook. I've been to many of the bases and have seen where some of the schedules were good and bad. At the base I'm currently at, show time in the morning isn't until 9:25am and you finish around 7:45pm which isn't bad. It's really about trying to get the run and schedule that works for you personally. I'm making more money than I've ever made in my life. That being said this is only my 2nd professional "pilot" job. Even with the long duty days, most of the time your not working all day. Just a couple hours in the morning and evening which I use to finish school. You have a fair amount of time on your hands no matter how you cut it really.

No TDY is not per diem and in other companies you get both.

Gjn290 06-03-2014 10:47 PM


Originally Posted by kimba (Post 1657812)
Delta Air Lines, Inc. and Endeavor Air, Inc share a common goal of attracting, hiring and retaining the best pilots who meet only the highest standards of safety, performance, professionalism and customer service.

Candidates often pursue new hire pilot positions in the regional airline industry as a “stepping stone” to the “majors”. That’s why Delta, together with Endeavor, announced on June 2, the Endeavor-to-Delta Pilot Hiring and Commitment Program, or the EtD Commitment.

Endeavor, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Delta, has transformed into a vibrant and innovative carrier committed to being the best place to work in the regional airline industry. Successful tenures at Endeavor will offer competitive pay and benefits to new hire pilots as well as an unrivaled career opportunity for continuous growth at Delta Air Lines – Fortune Magazine’s 2014 most admired airline for the third time in four years.

Pilots hired at Endeavor under the EtD Commitment will, upon becoming and remaining eligible under the provisions of the Endeavor-to-Delta Pilot Hiring and Commitment Program document, be hired as Delta pilots. As an EtD Commitment pilot, you will not be required to re-interview with Delta as your selection and screening by Endeavor and demonstrated performance thereafter will serve as your ‘ticket’ to Delta.

Endeavor Air and Delta Air Lines look forward to your interest in pilot opportunities at Endeavor to fly as part of the Delta Connection family.

Endeavor Air operates 850 daily flights as Delta Connection using 150 regional jets to more than 100 cities in the United States and Canada.


Full details on this exciting hiring program can be found by visiting the Endeavor Air careers website at Endeavor Air.
You have received this e-mail because you have an account with Airline Apps, Inc. and have elected to receive informational notices. If you no longer wish to receive this type of e-mail, please unsubscribe. Thank you Airline Apps, Inc.

GMAFB! First of all, why are you bringing Endeavor into this debate? If you went to Endeavor then you are simply on this thread trying to make yourself feel better about being at one of the most hated regionals right now. If you switch over to the Endeavor threads you will see how upset the Endeavor pilots that were hired before this agreement and are excluded.

P.S. You should continue to copy and paste or posts. This was the first post you've made that makes any sense.

Gjn290 06-03-2014 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by kimba (Post 1657822)
I'm glad you had your good experience and I wish you the best.
The money that you are talking about are not the money you start with, but the one you make when and if the company needs you to upgrade and as you said if you are always on the road for the company, that lead me to ask how good was your quality of life when you were flying your butt off. Plus you were flying as a PIC training capt on TDY in a part 135 company, do you really think that you were paid appropriately? I don't think a pilot with your qualification makes 50k in a part 135 company.
Of course if you have never been attracted by a part 121 you'll prefer AMF by far, but you don't have both experience like I have.
Unfortunately you can see the difference not when you are in a company but when you leave one for another one and you can make a comparison.
My question is: if AMF is such a great place to work, why all this movement? Why so many pilots are leaving? Why pilot leave AMF to go regionals?

I highly doubt any of your experience at this point.

kimba 06-03-2014 10:54 PM


Originally Posted by Gjn290 (Post 1657829)
GMAFB! First of all, why are you bringing Endeavor into this debate? If you went to Endeavor then you are simply on this thread trying to make yourself feel better about being at one of the most hated regionals right now. If you switch over to the Endeavor threads you will see how upset the Endeavor pilots that were hired before this agreement and are excluded.

P.S. You should continue to copy and paste or posts. This was the first post you've made that makes any sense.

Just an info to all the pilot that still think apply to AMF will take them to major like Delta, this is an info that I've just received and I thought it was good for everybody to know.
I'll continue copy and paste....

kimba 06-03-2014 10:55 PM


Originally Posted by Gjn290 (Post 1657832)
I highly doubt any of your experience at this point.

Sorry for you but I have both.
Can you answer any of my question? Can you bring any fact? Or only opinions?

Gjn290 06-04-2014 02:21 AM


Originally Posted by kimba (Post 1657836)
Sorry for you but I have both.
Can you answer any of my question? Can you bring any fact? Or only opinions?

I have brought in facts, more than you in fact. I encourage you to take the time and go back and read through my posts, thoroughly though this time.

You clearly have a bone to pick with people that don't share in your loathing towards AMF. I worked for a place before that left me feeling the same way you do now, don't worry the feeling will pass. You'll move on and won't think about it anymore. Holding a grudge doesn't help. Move on.

kimba 06-04-2014 04:52 AM


Originally Posted by Gjn290 (Post 1657865)
I have brought in facts, more than you in fact. I encourage you to take the time and go back and read through my posts, thoroughly though this time.

You clearly have a bone to pick with people that don't share in your loathing towards AMF. I worked for a place before that left me feeling the same way you do now, don't worry the feeling will pass. You'll move on and won't think about it anymore. Holding a grudge doesn't help. Move on.

Yes, I've red your post but haven't find anything intelligent that you have said.
It won't be easy to forget AMF because your "I know everything kind of attitude" is the reason why AMF was not for me and it won't be easy to forget. It was full of super hero like you.
I will forget AMF in the future I just want to share my experience with others before they make my same mistake!

Jetlife 06-04-2014 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by DasSchwerin (Post 1657803)
Maybe you wouldn't consider it "per diem" in the traditional sense but on the expense reports it says "per diem". If your talking about the TDY pay of $35 a day then that's what I mean when I say per diem. TDY also pays 8 units every day your away on assignment according to the employee handbook. I've been to many of the bases and have seen where some of the schedules were good and bad. At the base I'm currently at, show time in the morning isn't until 9:25am and you finish around 7:45pm which isn't bad. It's really about trying to get the run and schedule that works for you personally. I'm making more money than I've ever made in my life. That being said this is only my 2nd professional "pilot" job. Even with the long duty days, most of the time your not working all day. Just a couple hours in the morning and evening which I use to finish school. You have a fair amount of time on your hands no matter how you cut it really.

It can say whatever it wants on the expense report, every other company on the planet that pays per diem, does so at the start of a duty period, no matter where you are at. Do I not have to eat unless I am away from my normal base? And If I am on a several day trip, I accrue per diem 24 hours a day, not 8 hours.

I am not bashing AMF, just clarifying that the term per diem is misused as to the traditional sense.

And I have to comment on this specifically:


Originally Posted by DasSchwerin (Post 1657803)
Even with the long duty days, most of the time your not working all day. Just a couple hours in the morning and evening which I use to finish school. You have a fair amount of time on your hands no matter how you cut it really.

Whether you are physically flying or not, you are still on company time, you aren't off unless you are getting legal rest at your layover. I did the same thing as you, and worked on school during the day, which is nice to do, but it doesn't change the fact that you are gone from home, and at work for the company.


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