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Hand Commander 07-20-2017 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 2397290)
PrettyFlyGuy, if your instructor had 2000 hours IN the 1900 while he was here, I'm guessing he went through our training back around 2010 or so. I believe he would find a different culture if he were to go through today.

Nope. Its still the same culture.

Jetlife 07-20-2017 08:51 AM

Granted I went through in 2011, but AMF graining was unnecessarily tough and intense. It sucks that it hasn’t changed, if was the worst trsining program I have experienced in my career before or since.

Culturally, AMF will never change. Gary Richards is still an influence on the day to day operations there, which is why anyone who comes in and tries to make a real change, gets canned or reassigned. It’s a bottom feeder outfit that hates pilots. Always has been, always will be.

FreightDogs 07-20-2017 08:59 AM


Originally Posted by BlueJacketGuy (Post 2397147)
Anyone know if you join as a low time FO at 500 hours if you can later bracket into the accelerated Captain program on hitting 800 hours? What exactly is the difference in training and what the FO would do?

Hi, there!

If you join as an EMB120 FO around 500 hours, you are still eligible for the Accelerated Captain Program when you get to the 800 hours.
The difference in the training: normal FOs are trained on the EMB120 and fly right seat in the EMB120 when they get out, ACP FOs are trained on the BE99 and fly right seat in the BE99 when they get out.

Hope that helps!

PrettyFlyGuy 07-20-2017 11:54 AM


Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 2397290)
Question. How large is your fleet and how many pilots do you have?

I realize that right now we only have about 130 line pilots but we have had, and hope to have again in the future, over 200 line pilots. I would argue that the reason our training is so intense is that, with that many pilots, we have to have strict consistency across the fleet. And sometimes the only time someone flies with them is during their six month check. So we need to ensure they are flying the plane the way we want it flown instead of some way they decide themselves is better.

PrettyFlyGuy, if your instructor had 2000 hours IN the 1900 while he was here, I'm guessing he went through our training back around 2010 or so. I believe he would find a different culture if he were to go through today.

You do realize about every airline and fractional out there has more pilots than Ameriflight and doesnt need to hold a shock collar on everyone to get them to fly properly. I believe we have 30 routes staffed plus a couple floaters and a few ACP's so 40 without checking the roster. We have guys from florida to colorado and we only get flown with every 6 months as well. Have yet to see a single person since I started. Consistency has nothing to do with intensity. Hell look at the Minnesota Vikings we train like hell every year but cant consistently catch a ball or run a play in sync until the 4th quarter when its to late. Its the quality of the training and proper quidance and explanation. If a pilot finds a way that is better, safer and more efficient i would hope you guys didnt beat out the last cell of common sense and hope for life during training that he would decide to fly the safer way and not just following your way blindly every time.
Whats interesting is we pay less than Ameriflight but fill every route within a week of the job posting. I had 4 other guys to compete against for my spot. That should say something as to what people think of the training. As I have been flying around doing charters I have discovered there are a ton of lifers in the night freight world who all seem to get paid less than Am flight so if they had a decent culture there are plenty of guys out there who they could poach that dig flying pieces of sh!t through the back side of thunderstorms all night. Or maybe the hiring department is only picking ding dongs who pencil whipped the 1200 hours and they have to be like that who knows. My father has 10000 hours between the metro and 1900 in the 80's so i hear all the time about his training which required all ndb approaches and he still had a more relaxed environment than here. Hell he had 3 engine failures, 1 fire and a stuck nose gear all in the metro. And flying a metro single engine is no cake walk. So he survived without being ridiculed through training. Now maybe your instructors never made it to the big leagues and have an ax to grind and fill there egos by t-bagging new hires in training so that could be it. Either way we aren't lifeflight medics or ER docs we are night freight pilots. So chill out and fly the damn plane and get off the high horse. Life is short so let your people enjoy their job. Not aimed at you specifically just alot of pent up anger at the industry as a whole. :)
My .02.

frmrbuffdrvr 07-20-2017 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2397379)
Granted I went through in 2011, but AMF graining was unnecessarily tough and intense. It sucks that it hasn’t changed, if was the worst trsining program I have experienced in my career before or since.

Culturally, AMF will never change. Gary Richards is still an influence on the day to day operations there, which is why anyone who comes in and tries to make a real change, gets canned or reassigned. It’s a bottom feeder outfit that hates pilots. Always has been, always will be.


If you are still basing your evaluation of AMF on Richards ideas, you are SO mistaken. With all the stuff we have done over the past few years, if Richards were still running we would have shut down by now.

Jetlife 07-20-2017 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 2397498)
If you are still basing your evaluation of AMF on Richards ideas, you are SO mistaken. With all the stuff we have done over the past few years, if Richards were still running we would have shut down by now.

Sounds like you are close. Half the planes in ABQ are parked, SLC losing runs. The runs you do have, you can't staff. Doing the same thing for 30 years and expecting a different result isn't going to cut it anymore.

Just because classes and classes of new recruits are coming through the "training" department doesn't mean business is booming.

Paul Plano 07-24-2017 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by pilotscott (Post 2395752)
Stay away from this place.... the training is very intense and not in a good way but a very bad way. If and when you complete your training you come out drained and worn out. All the stress isn't worth it because when you come out, if you pass it your only flying old crappy twins that look like they have seen better days. if you have low times good luck but if you have high times go somewhere else.



Originally Posted by PrettyFlyGuy (Post 2397479)
As I have been flying around doing charters I have discovered there are a ton of lifers in the night freight world who all seem to get paid less than Am flight so if they had a decent culture there are plenty of guys out there who they could poach that dig flying pieces of sh!t through the back side of thunderstorms all night. Or maybe the hiring department is only picking ding dongs who pencil whipped the 1200 hours and they have to be like that who knows. My father has 10000 hours between the metro and 1900 in the 80's so i hear all the time about his training which required all ndb approaches and he still had a more relaxed environment than here. Hell he had 3 engine failures, 1 fire and a stuck nose gear all in the metro. And flying a metro single engine is no cake walk. So he survived without being ridiculed through training. Now maybe your instructors never made it to the big leagues and have an ax to grind and fill there egos by t-bagging new hires in training so that could be it.


I've been lurking on this thread for a while now, but figured I'd nose in here at this point. Been with Ameriflight since late last year.

My personal experience with Ameriflight's [Metro] training department has been positive. Their instructors are very competent, passionate, and expect everyone to be able to succeed in the training. But there is a standard, and if you are unwilling or unable to study after class, identify your weak areas yourself, you won't hold up when it comes time for the checkride. In my class, we had one guy quit the day before his checkride and we had another guy require some extra training and eventually get reassigned off the metro.

Frankly, I see these moves as positive. They expect you to know your sh*t. If you don't, sooner or later it becomes obvious.

Are their planes old? Yup. Do they break sometimes? Yup. You will be expected to know them well enough to handle an engine fire, run the appropriate checklists, talk to approach control while bringing her around in low vis conditions to circle to land on a different runway (on the centerline). ALL while solo. You will do exactly this in training... and more.

I'll say Ameriflight isn't a good fit for everyone. Not everyone is cut out to fly solo at night 'up the back side of thunderstorms' as you put it. I'd rather they weed those guys out in training than on the line. Those that are able to make it through the training can enjoy a better than average salary (as you mention) and maybe someday a flow thru to UPS, who knows.

But do they ridicule you in training or demean you in any way? I've never heard of that happening, and frankly, quite the opposite. They want you to succeed. I've seen them bend over backwards to get a pilot more training. Just my experience.

ah64 07-24-2017 08:54 PM


Originally Posted by Ziggy (Post 240413)
AMF does not really rely on the seniority system to much like the airlines do. Most peope who get hired in to a base will stay there for the duration. For instance I was hired into SLC for the 99, then after a while they upgraded me to the Metro within that base. Now if a position had continually gone unfulfilled, then they would offer it system wide. In that way it benefits you to stay in base.

If you're looking to get hired on then transfer to a prefered base. That will prove to be harder.

Things have changed as they now show an open list every few weeks and bids are done every quarter. Been there 4 years and have moved 3 times & upgraded twice. I could have went to Omni, but have decided to stay a while longer.

ah64 07-24-2017 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by Paul Plano (Post 2399145)
I've been lurking on this thread for a while now, but figured I'd nose in here at this point. Been with Ameriflight since late last year.

My personal experience with Ameriflight's [Metro] training department has been positive. Their instructors are very competent, passionate, and expect everyone to be able to succeed in the training. But there is a standard, and if you are unwilling or unable to study after class, identify your weak areas yourself, you won't hold up when it comes time for the checkride. In my class, we had one guy quit the day before his checkride and we had another guy require some extra training and eventually get reassigned off the metro.

Frankly, I see these moves as positive. They expect you to know your sh*t. If you don't, sooner or later it becomes obvious.

Are their planes old? Yup. Do they break sometimes? Yup. You will be expected to know them well enough to handle an engine fire, run the appropriate checklists, talk to approach control while bringing her around in low vis conditions to circle to land on a different runway (on the centerline). ALL while solo. You will do exactly this in training... and more.

I'll say Ameriflight isn't a good fit for everyone. Not everyone is cut out to fly solo at night 'up the back side of thunderstorms' as you put it. I'd rather they weed those guys out in training than on the line. Those that are able to make it through the training can enjoy a better than average salary (as you mention) and maybe someday a flow thru to UPS, who knows.

But do they ridicule you in training or demean you in any way? I've never heard of that happening, and frankly, quite the opposite. They want you to succeed. I've seen them bend over backwards to get a pilot more training. Just my experience.

I agree Paul. I'm a better pilot due to the training I received & experience I've gained at AMF. Pilotscott, It's very obvious you washed out & can't except responsibility for your failure. If you're half the pilot you think you are, you'll take a good look in the mirror, adjust your attitude and learn from it.

ah64 07-24-2017 09:15 PM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2397379)
Granted I went through in 2011, but AMF graining was unnecessarily tough and intense. It sucks that it hasn’t changed, if was the worst trsining program I have experienced in my career before or since.

Culturally, AMF will never change. Gary Richards is still an influence on the day to day operations there, which is why anyone who comes in and tries to make a real change, gets canned or reassigned. It’s a bottom feeder outfit that hates pilots. Always has been, always will be.

Gary Richards? It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.


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