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Fr8Thrust 08-07-2018 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by Luewk (Post 2650800)
K so the realistic path for someone going to AMF would be: CFI/some other op until 500-800 hrs, then AMF, then a regional after being with AMF for a few years?
I'm confused as to why someone would go to AMF then instead of doing CFI/whatever until they get their ATP mins and then just going to a regional, whats the advantage?

Because pilots that have flown commuters/TProps are better than those who have skipped this step. The skills obtained from this job, will carry you throughout your career. Think of it as life insurance or professional development.

Jetlife 08-07-2018 04:40 PM


Originally Posted by Fr8Thrust (Post 2650864)
Because pilots that have flown commuters/TProps are better than those who have skipped this step.

Define better. They aren’t better airline pilots...

Fr8Thrust 08-07-2018 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2650865)
Define better. They aren’t better airline pilots...

They definitely are better airline pilots. They know how to manage, multi-task, they know IFR, they’re a good stick, and they know what it takes to master an airplane and most importantly get the job done. Every AMF Pilot I know in the airlines is sharp, efficient, and has a better training & performance record than those who went straight from CFI.

Put two planes at the same gate, one with a former AMF pilot, and the other a CFI... which one gets off the gate sooner and lands sooner with happier passengers (no events). And which one takes a delay to comprehend an MEL, misses their wheels up time as taxi on one engine, and goes missed because they can’t keep the airplane stable.

BobSacamano 08-07-2018 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by Luewk (Post 2650800)
K so the realistic path for someone going to AMF would be: CFI/some other op until 500-800 hrs, then AMF, then a regional after being with AMF for a few years?
I'm confused as to why someone would go to AMF then instead of doing CFI/whatever until they get their ATP mins and then just going to a regional, whats the advantage?

Nights at home. The 22 year old single guy/girl fresh out of Riddle might not care about being away from home for half of their working life, but other demographics do.

Jetlife 08-07-2018 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by Fr8Thrust (Post 2650870)
They definitely are better airline pilots. They know how to manage, multi-task, they know IFR, they’re a good stick, and they know what it takes to master an airplane and most importantly get the job done. Every AMF Pilot I know in the airlines is sharp, efficient, and has a better training & performance record than those who went straight from CFI.

Put two planes at the same gate, one with a former AMF pilot, and the other a CFI... which one gets off the gate sooner and lands sooner with happier passengers (no events). And which one takes a delay to comprehend an MEL, misses their wheels up time as taxi on one engine, and goes missed because they can’t keep the airplane stable.

They have better fundamental skills maybe, but crews at AMF, aside from the Bro maybe, get zero CRM training, FOs do not have traditional responsibilities, and the planes are old.

Sure they might be better hand flyers but AMF pilots have to essentially unlearn lots of things to fit in the airline environment. Single pilot freight will always be too cowboy to universally mesh with airline flying. Doesn’t mean they can’t, I did it as have thousands. But a regional job will better prepare you for other jet job way more than AMF ever would. The operation is different, the flying is different, the CRM is different, the mission is different. AMF was some of the most challenging flying I have ever done but it didn’t make me some hot shot airline pilot.

As for your wich airplane will get to the gate sooner, I would be more concerned with which plane got to the gate in a more safe manor, and who more closely followed procedure. It’s not solely about just completing the mission, which drives me nuts when guys have that mentality. Former military and former 135 freight pilots have to have that mentality broken out of them. And I speak as a former military and AMF employee.

ZippyNH 08-07-2018 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by BobSacamano (Post 2650874)
Nights at home. The 22 year old single guy/girl fresh out of Riddle might not care about being away from home for half of their working life, but other demographics do.

+1
That and a more typical upgrade path for many AMF pilots will be to a LCC, or corporate job, or the mentioned UPS program.
Strange thing happens when you have a good QOL...you realize that the size of the plane of the paycheck isn't as important as you once thought...well rounded life is important too. If you devote your life to your job, and something happens, what do you have left?!
Being home for family events, enjoy a home life ...it all adds up. Well rounded life/work balance.
So often I hear people say to stick it through, deal with a regional lifestyle, wait to get to a legacy...then life will get better. Reality is many people saying that might get stuck at a regional or LCC and never make a legacy...
I could never.... something to think about.
LIVING THE DREAM...not the nightmare.
Please keep in mind that the typical reader on this site had ONE GOAL....call themselves an airline pilot flying a big jet.
Reality is many AMF pilots make more $$$ than most guys fly cargo at a couple 767 operators I know...and get more time at home. Lots less BS....ever ride in the jumpseat and list to how unhappy many pilots are?!

Jetlife 08-07-2018 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by ZippyNH (Post 2650889)
+1
That and a more typical upgrade path for many AMF pilots will be to a LCC, or corporate job, or the mentioned UPS program.
Strange thing happens when you have a good QOL...you realize that the size of the plane of the paycheck isn't as important as you once thought...well rounded life is important too. If you devote your life to your job, and something happens, what do you have left?!
Being home for family events, enjoy a home life ...it all adds up. Well rounded life/work balance.
So often I hear people say to stick it through, deal with a regional lifestyle, wait to get to a legacy...then life will get better. Reality is many people saying that might get stuck at a regional or LCC and never make a legacy...
I could never.... something to think about.
LIVING THE DREAM...not the nightmare.
Please keep in mind that the typical reader on this site had ONE GOAL....call themselves an airline pilot flying a big jet.
Reality is many AMF pilots make more $$$ than most guys fly cargo at a couple 767 operators I know...and get more time at home. Lots less BS....ever ride in the jumpseat and list to how unhappy many pilots are?!

No the typical path for an AMF pilot is to a regional, the less typical path is to an LCC or ULCC, Omni, Southern/Atlas etc.

Home at night is huge. However that greatly varies. I worked 5 days a week from 630am to 630pm. I had to leave the house at 5am, and I walked into the door at 8pm. I would rather just be gone 12 days a month, then when I’m home, I’m home. But to each their own that’s for sure. AMF has its place, and if you want some hard flying that’s the place to go, but QOL? Let’s get real lol.

Hand Commander 08-07-2018 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by Fr8Thrust (Post 2650870)
They definitely are better airline pilots. They know how to manage, multi-task, they know IFR, they’re a good stick, and they know what it takes to master an airplane and most importantly get the job done. Every AMF Pilot I know in the airlines is sharp, efficient, and has a better training & performance record than those who went straight from CFI.

Put two planes at the same gate, one with a former AMF pilot, and the other a CFI... which one gets off the gate sooner and lands sooner with happier passengers (no events). And which one takes a delay to comprehend an MEL, misses their wheels up time as taxi on one engine, and goes missed because they can’t keep the airplane stable.

Yikes! I've seen plenty of Amerflight pilots, including management pilots, do some pretty ridiculous and stupid things. Ask the recruiter on here how many incidents of airplane damage they've had in the last couple of years and why it was necessary to send management out on a road show to visit every base to emphasize the need for safety. I would argue that "Getting the job done" is the least important out of those skills while having a spine, thick skin, and knowing when to shut things down should come before it.

Fr8Thrust 08-07-2018 08:41 PM


Originally Posted by Hand Commander (Post 2650931)
Yikes! I've seen plenty of Amerflight pilots, including management pilots, do some pretty ridiculous and stupid things. Ask the recruiter on here how many incidents of airplane damage they've had in the last couple of years and why it was necessary to send management out on a road show to visit every base to emphasize the need for safety. I would argue that "Getting the job done" is the least important out of those skills while having a spine, thick skin, and knowing when to shut things down should come before it.

You can still get it done while having a spine; it’s a balance. I agree there were some horrible mgmt pilots in the past. I can only speak to my experience, which I had full support of my managers when I needed it. Everyone’s AMF experience varies. I used to think the training dept was our closest thing to a union, given how often they had to fix things.

Jetlife 08-08-2018 03:47 PM

Speaking of how much AMF is behind the times and has no idea how much trouble they’re in, they just increased BE99 captain pay to 50k. There are endless amounts jet FO jobs with schedules that pay more than that. AMF is in some real trouble...


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