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Hand Commander 07-20-2017 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 2397290)
PrettyFlyGuy, if your instructor had 2000 hours IN the 1900 while he was here, I'm guessing he went through our training back around 2010 or so. I believe he would find a different culture if he were to go through today.

Nope. Its still the same culture.

Jetlife 07-20-2017 08:51 AM

Granted I went through in 2011, but AMF graining was unnecessarily tough and intense. It sucks that it hasn’t changed, if was the worst trsining program I have experienced in my career before or since.

Culturally, AMF will never change. Gary Richards is still an influence on the day to day operations there, which is why anyone who comes in and tries to make a real change, gets canned or reassigned. It’s a bottom feeder outfit that hates pilots. Always has been, always will be.

FreightDogs 07-20-2017 08:59 AM


Originally Posted by BlueJacketGuy (Post 2397147)
Anyone know if you join as a low time FO at 500 hours if you can later bracket into the accelerated Captain program on hitting 800 hours? What exactly is the difference in training and what the FO would do?

Hi, there!

If you join as an EMB120 FO around 500 hours, you are still eligible for the Accelerated Captain Program when you get to the 800 hours.
The difference in the training: normal FOs are trained on the EMB120 and fly right seat in the EMB120 when they get out, ACP FOs are trained on the BE99 and fly right seat in the BE99 when they get out.

Hope that helps!

PrettyFlyGuy 07-20-2017 11:54 AM


Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 2397290)
Question. How large is your fleet and how many pilots do you have?

I realize that right now we only have about 130 line pilots but we have had, and hope to have again in the future, over 200 line pilots. I would argue that the reason our training is so intense is that, with that many pilots, we have to have strict consistency across the fleet. And sometimes the only time someone flies with them is during their six month check. So we need to ensure they are flying the plane the way we want it flown instead of some way they decide themselves is better.

PrettyFlyGuy, if your instructor had 2000 hours IN the 1900 while he was here, I'm guessing he went through our training back around 2010 or so. I believe he would find a different culture if he were to go through today.

You do realize about every airline and fractional out there has more pilots than Ameriflight and doesnt need to hold a shock collar on everyone to get them to fly properly. I believe we have 30 routes staffed plus a couple floaters and a few ACP's so 40 without checking the roster. We have guys from florida to colorado and we only get flown with every 6 months as well. Have yet to see a single person since I started. Consistency has nothing to do with intensity. Hell look at the Minnesota Vikings we train like hell every year but cant consistently catch a ball or run a play in sync until the 4th quarter when its to late. Its the quality of the training and proper quidance and explanation. If a pilot finds a way that is better, safer and more efficient i would hope you guys didnt beat out the last cell of common sense and hope for life during training that he would decide to fly the safer way and not just following your way blindly every time.
Whats interesting is we pay less than Ameriflight but fill every route within a week of the job posting. I had 4 other guys to compete against for my spot. That should say something as to what people think of the training. As I have been flying around doing charters I have discovered there are a ton of lifers in the night freight world who all seem to get paid less than Am flight so if they had a decent culture there are plenty of guys out there who they could poach that dig flying pieces of sh!t through the back side of thunderstorms all night. Or maybe the hiring department is only picking ding dongs who pencil whipped the 1200 hours and they have to be like that who knows. My father has 10000 hours between the metro and 1900 in the 80's so i hear all the time about his training which required all ndb approaches and he still had a more relaxed environment than here. Hell he had 3 engine failures, 1 fire and a stuck nose gear all in the metro. And flying a metro single engine is no cake walk. So he survived without being ridiculed through training. Now maybe your instructors never made it to the big leagues and have an ax to grind and fill there egos by t-bagging new hires in training so that could be it. Either way we aren't lifeflight medics or ER docs we are night freight pilots. So chill out and fly the damn plane and get off the high horse. Life is short so let your people enjoy their job. Not aimed at you specifically just alot of pent up anger at the industry as a whole. :)
My .02.

frmrbuffdrvr 07-20-2017 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2397379)
Granted I went through in 2011, but AMF graining was unnecessarily tough and intense. It sucks that it hasn’t changed, if was the worst trsining program I have experienced in my career before or since.

Culturally, AMF will never change. Gary Richards is still an influence on the day to day operations there, which is why anyone who comes in and tries to make a real change, gets canned or reassigned. It’s a bottom feeder outfit that hates pilots. Always has been, always will be.


If you are still basing your evaluation of AMF on Richards ideas, you are SO mistaken. With all the stuff we have done over the past few years, if Richards were still running we would have shut down by now.

Jetlife 07-20-2017 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 2397498)
If you are still basing your evaluation of AMF on Richards ideas, you are SO mistaken. With all the stuff we have done over the past few years, if Richards were still running we would have shut down by now.

Sounds like you are close. Half the planes in ABQ are parked, SLC losing runs. The runs you do have, you can't staff. Doing the same thing for 30 years and expecting a different result isn't going to cut it anymore.

Just because classes and classes of new recruits are coming through the "training" department doesn't mean business is booming.

Paul Plano 07-24-2017 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by pilotscott (Post 2395752)
Stay away from this place.... the training is very intense and not in a good way but a very bad way. If and when you complete your training you come out drained and worn out. All the stress isn't worth it because when you come out, if you pass it your only flying old crappy twins that look like they have seen better days. if you have low times good luck but if you have high times go somewhere else.



Originally Posted by PrettyFlyGuy (Post 2397479)
As I have been flying around doing charters I have discovered there are a ton of lifers in the night freight world who all seem to get paid less than Am flight so if they had a decent culture there are plenty of guys out there who they could poach that dig flying pieces of sh!t through the back side of thunderstorms all night. Or maybe the hiring department is only picking ding dongs who pencil whipped the 1200 hours and they have to be like that who knows. My father has 10000 hours between the metro and 1900 in the 80's so i hear all the time about his training which required all ndb approaches and he still had a more relaxed environment than here. Hell he had 3 engine failures, 1 fire and a stuck nose gear all in the metro. And flying a metro single engine is no cake walk. So he survived without being ridiculed through training. Now maybe your instructors never made it to the big leagues and have an ax to grind and fill there egos by t-bagging new hires in training so that could be it.


I've been lurking on this thread for a while now, but figured I'd nose in here at this point. Been with Ameriflight since late last year.

My personal experience with Ameriflight's [Metro] training department has been positive. Their instructors are very competent, passionate, and expect everyone to be able to succeed in the training. But there is a standard, and if you are unwilling or unable to study after class, identify your weak areas yourself, you won't hold up when it comes time for the checkride. In my class, we had one guy quit the day before his checkride and we had another guy require some extra training and eventually get reassigned off the metro.

Frankly, I see these moves as positive. They expect you to know your sh*t. If you don't, sooner or later it becomes obvious.

Are their planes old? Yup. Do they break sometimes? Yup. You will be expected to know them well enough to handle an engine fire, run the appropriate checklists, talk to approach control while bringing her around in low vis conditions to circle to land on a different runway (on the centerline). ALL while solo. You will do exactly this in training... and more.

I'll say Ameriflight isn't a good fit for everyone. Not everyone is cut out to fly solo at night 'up the back side of thunderstorms' as you put it. I'd rather they weed those guys out in training than on the line. Those that are able to make it through the training can enjoy a better than average salary (as you mention) and maybe someday a flow thru to UPS, who knows.

But do they ridicule you in training or demean you in any way? I've never heard of that happening, and frankly, quite the opposite. They want you to succeed. I've seen them bend over backwards to get a pilot more training. Just my experience.

ah64 07-24-2017 08:54 PM


Originally Posted by Ziggy (Post 240413)
AMF does not really rely on the seniority system to much like the airlines do. Most peope who get hired in to a base will stay there for the duration. For instance I was hired into SLC for the 99, then after a while they upgraded me to the Metro within that base. Now if a position had continually gone unfulfilled, then they would offer it system wide. In that way it benefits you to stay in base.

If you're looking to get hired on then transfer to a prefered base. That will prove to be harder.

Things have changed as they now show an open list every few weeks and bids are done every quarter. Been there 4 years and have moved 3 times & upgraded twice. I could have went to Omni, but have decided to stay a while longer.

ah64 07-24-2017 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by Paul Plano (Post 2399145)
I've been lurking on this thread for a while now, but figured I'd nose in here at this point. Been with Ameriflight since late last year.

My personal experience with Ameriflight's [Metro] training department has been positive. Their instructors are very competent, passionate, and expect everyone to be able to succeed in the training. But there is a standard, and if you are unwilling or unable to study after class, identify your weak areas yourself, you won't hold up when it comes time for the checkride. In my class, we had one guy quit the day before his checkride and we had another guy require some extra training and eventually get reassigned off the metro.

Frankly, I see these moves as positive. They expect you to know your sh*t. If you don't, sooner or later it becomes obvious.

Are their planes old? Yup. Do they break sometimes? Yup. You will be expected to know them well enough to handle an engine fire, run the appropriate checklists, talk to approach control while bringing her around in low vis conditions to circle to land on a different runway (on the centerline). ALL while solo. You will do exactly this in training... and more.

I'll say Ameriflight isn't a good fit for everyone. Not everyone is cut out to fly solo at night 'up the back side of thunderstorms' as you put it. I'd rather they weed those guys out in training than on the line. Those that are able to make it through the training can enjoy a better than average salary (as you mention) and maybe someday a flow thru to UPS, who knows.

But do they ridicule you in training or demean you in any way? I've never heard of that happening, and frankly, quite the opposite. They want you to succeed. I've seen them bend over backwards to get a pilot more training. Just my experience.

I agree Paul. I'm a better pilot due to the training I received & experience I've gained at AMF. Pilotscott, It's very obvious you washed out & can't except responsibility for your failure. If you're half the pilot you think you are, you'll take a good look in the mirror, adjust your attitude and learn from it.

ah64 07-24-2017 09:15 PM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2397379)
Granted I went through in 2011, but AMF graining was unnecessarily tough and intense. It sucks that it hasn’t changed, if was the worst trsining program I have experienced in my career before or since.

Culturally, AMF will never change. Gary Richards is still an influence on the day to day operations there, which is why anyone who comes in and tries to make a real change, gets canned or reassigned. It’s a bottom feeder outfit that hates pilots. Always has been, always will be.

Gary Richards? It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

Jetlife 07-25-2017 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by ah64 (Post 2399422)
Gary Richards? It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yea, he still consults to the board of directors, but you're right.

Jetlife 07-25-2017 01:59 PM


Originally Posted by ah64 (Post 2399413)
Things have changed as they now show an open list every few weeks and bids are done every quarter. Been there 4 years and have moved 3 times & upgraded twice. I could have went to Omni, but have decided to stay a while longer.

You have been at AMF for 4 years? Do you hate your career?

Bockrain 07-26-2017 08:32 AM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2399662)
You have been at AMF for 4 years? Do you hate your career?

Maybe he's waiting on the UPS flow thru? It would be stupid of him to quit now when he's so close to flowing.

Jetlife 07-26-2017 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by bockrain (Post 2399891)
maybe he's waiting on the ups flow thru? It would be stupid of him to quit now when he's so close to flowing.

there is no flow!!!!!!!!!!

Bockrain 07-26-2017 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2399894)
there is no flow!!!!!!!!!!

AMF and UPS has announced a partnership of some type and the AMF management on here continually talk about a flow with UPS, so what's the real deal?

Jetlife 07-26-2017 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by Bockrain (Post 2399901)
AMF and UPS has announced a partnership of some type and the AMF management on here continually talk about a flow with UPS, so what's the real deal?

The partnership is for UPS interns. UPS picks 10 interns a year. You have to be selected as a UPS intern, you THEN have to be selected for the UPS/AMF partnership program. You have to go to AMF and complete an undisclosed series of qualifications that will take you several years, you then have to be selected for a job back at UPS.

The partnership literally has nothing to do with AMF pilots.

He wouldn’t be the first one waiting around because of rumors spread by management, only to **** away several years of their career and leave for a regional.

Bockrain 07-26-2017 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2399912)
The partnership is for UPS interns. UPS picks 10 interns a year. You have to be selected as a UPS intern, you THEN have to be selected for the UPS/AMF partnership program. You have to go to AMF and complete an undisclosed series of qualifications that will take you several years, you then have to be selected for a job back at UPS.

The partnership literally has nothing to do with AMF pilots.

He wouldn’t be the first one waiting around because of rumors spread by management, only to **** away several years of their career and leave for a regional.


Would AMF management spread false rumors in hopes that guys stick around for deals that management knows will never materialize?

Jetlife 07-26-2017 10:57 AM


Originally Posted by Bockrain (Post 2399940)
Would AMF management spread false rumors in hopes that guys stick around for deals that management knows will never materialize?

Of course they would, they have been doing that forever. The mailer they sent out to everyone says “flow” to a bunch of different companies. AMF doesn’t have a flow to any company. All of them are preferential hiring agreements or similar.

WesternSkies 07-26-2017 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by ah64 (Post 2399413)
Things have changed as they now show an open list every few weeks and bids are done every quarter. Been there 4 years and have moved 3 times & upgraded twice. I could have went to Omni, but have decided to stay a while longer.

Why would you downgrade once at AMF?

lraber33 07-27-2017 10:46 PM

Pilot with approx. 4000 total time most of which is PIC, 1200 PIC in a 208, ATP multi rating but very little multi time (approx. 60). What A/C would they be a candidate for? Hoping for the EMB120 as PIC however the 1900 would be great too.

0000 07-28-2017 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by lraber33 (Post 2400595)
Pilot with approx. 4000 total time most of which is PIC, 1200 PIC in a 208, ATP multi rating but very little multi time (approx. 60). What A/C would they be a candidate for? Hoping for the EMB120 as PIC however the 1900 would be great too.



PA31 or BE99 with your multi time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gatehold 07-28-2017 09:54 AM

Can someone let me know the current hiring profile from initial call to interview. e.g., got a call, phone interview, sim check, offer.

Thanks

cynicalaviator 07-28-2017 05:27 PM

Asking for a friend of mine: what's the current hiring outlook for a 500 hr pilot?

frmrbuffdrvr 07-29-2017 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by cynicalaviator (Post 2401047)
Asking for a friend of mine: what's the current hiring outlook for a 500 hr pilot?

At 500 hours, the only position available is E120 FO, provided we have a current opening and you have a minimum of 25 hours multi time. Those are the bare minimum requirements and we have many applicants for a limited number of spots. Once you get to 800 hours, you become eligible for our Accelerated Captain Program. There you are trained as a first officer in the BE99 to gain hours and experience in our system. This is also where you can work on getting to not just the 1200 hours required for an IFR captain, but also your cross country, night, and instrument time requirements. Once you reach about 1000 hours total time, we are currently checking pilots as VFR captains. You would continue to build time flying as a VFR captain (weather permitting) and as an FO until you approach 1200 hours. At that point you would be paired with a training captain to get you ready for your instrument check ride (135.297.) Once that is completed you would be released to the line as an unrestricted IFR captain.

frmrbuffdrvr 07-29-2017 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by lraber33 (Post 2400595)
Pilot with approx. 4000 total time most of which is PIC, 1200 PIC in a 208, ATP multi rating but very little multi time (approx. 60). What A/C would they be a candidate for? Hoping for the EMB120 as PIC however the 1900 would be great too.

Your total time is great, but only 60 hours multi is too low for a 120 PIC. It might even be a bit low for the 1900. I would think the most likely path would be to start in the BE99, get a couple hundred hours multi time (4-6 months) then bid to the 1900. After 6 months to a year there (maybe sooner, depending on need and your performance) you would be in a position to bid into the 120.

Cefiro 07-29-2017 06:09 PM

People are complaining the training is too intense? Single pilot 135 in a turbine with no autopilot is the most difficult flying you'll ever do. It should be intense! As a 121 captain, my job is way easier than when I flew 135 (not ameriflight, but same type of flying).

Jetlife 07-30-2017 10:47 AM


Originally Posted by Cefiro (Post 2401490)
People are complaining the training is too intense? Single pilot 135 in a turbine with no autopilot is the most difficult flying you'll ever do. It should be intense! As a 121 captain, my job is way easier than when I flew 135 (not ameriflight, but same type of flying).

All training programs are intense, but AMF used to have a very small training window. If you didn’t fit within that window, you were booted. If anything, the training at AMF needs to be longer than a 121 initial, which it isn’t, even today it isn’t.

frmrbuffdrvr 08-01-2017 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by Jetlife (Post 2401702)
All training programs are intense, but AMF used to have a very small training window. If you didn’t fit within that window, you were booted. If anything, the training at AMF needs to be longer than a 121 initial, which it isn’t, even today it isn’t.

How long do you think it should be?

I've known metro trainees that have done indoc (1 week), aircraft ground (one week), Sims (4 - 6 sims), 3 weeks of online training and then couldn't pass a check ride. And one particular was a pilot who (at least according to his log book) had over 10,000 hours.

Jetlife 08-01-2017 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 2402540)
How long do you think it should be?

I've known metro trainees that have done indoc (1 week), aircraft ground (one week), Sims (4 - 6 sims), 3 weeks of online training and then couldn't pass a check ride. And one particular was a pilot who (at least according to his log book) had over 10,000 hours.

3 weeks of online training means nothing. 6 sims? That’s what I had for the Airbus which is way easier to fly and I had a crew member. 1 week of systems, 6 MFTD seasons, 6 sims with 2 prep sims. And that’s to fly an airplane that flies it’s self. Only a few people will fit into the mold that AMF expects, which is why the washout rate is so high. Take an antiquated airplane meant for 2 people, then make it so you have to learn a bunch of irrelevant, mundane systems knowledge, tack on complex flows and memory items, and compress it to a timeframe that’s shorter than modern aircraft. It defies common logic. But that’s the AMF way, and that’s how it’s always been done so why change it. :)

FreightDogs 08-01-2017 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by gatehold (Post 2400808)
Can someone let me know the current hiring profile from initial call to interview. e.g., got a call, phone interview, sim check, offer.

Thanks

Hi, there!

Here's the typical break down:
Pilot fills out our quick application (asks for basic info and times).
If you meet our mins, a recruiter will send you the longer application (goes in depth - like your work history, etc).
Once you fill that out, the recruiter will be alerted and will review it and call you. They'll go over your times, discuss your desires (where you want to be located, what aircraft, when you'll be available for training, etc.), and ask you some general HR questions. If you are good to go from there, they'll send you a link to a video interview called RIVs where you'll answer six flying-related questions. They'll be alerted when you submit it and will review your answers.
They will then give you a call and either offer you a position, ask you a few more questions, or tell you what they need from you.

The whole process can take as little as one day depending on how busy you are.

Hope that helps! Feel free to ask any other questions you have!

yvpilot317 08-01-2017 11:20 AM

Do you anticipate any hiring for the EMB120 SIC anytime soon? thanks!

own nav 08-01-2017 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by yvpilot317 (Post 2402712)
Do you anticipate any hiring for the EMB120 SIC anytime soon? thanks!

There are 2 new E120 runs in ONT and GPI, captain bids just came out. Call recruiting to see if they have filled the FO spots.

lraber33 08-03-2017 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by FreightDogs (Post 2402624)
Hi, there!

Here's the typical break down:
Pilot fills out our quick application (asks for basic info and times).
If you meet our mins, a recruiter will send you the longer application (goes in depth - like your work history, etc).
Once you fill that out, the recruiter will be alerted and will review it and call you. They'll go over your times, discuss your desires (where you want to be located, what aircraft, when you'll be available for training, etc.), and ask you some general HR questions. If you are good to go from there, they'll send you a link to a video interview called RIVs where you'll answer six flying-related questions. They'll be alerted when you submit it and will review your answers.
They will then give you a call and either offer you a position, ask you a few more questions, or tell you what they need from you.

The whole process can take as little as one day depending on how busy you are.

Hope that helps! Feel free to ask any other questions you have!

How long after the RIV does it take to hear back?

FreightDogs 08-07-2017 06:46 AM


Originally Posted by lraber33 (Post 2404253)
How long after the RIV does it take to hear back?

Typically, the day of or the day after depending on when you submit it.
If you don't hear something back relatively soon, feel free to ping your recruiter or even me. I can have them look it up and check you out!

BlueJacketGuy 08-10-2017 12:54 PM

Why the requirement for an FO to have both 500 TT and 500 PIC? From what I know Part 135 doesn't have a PIC time requirement on props.

frmrbuffdrvr 08-12-2017 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by BlueJacketGuy (Post 2408068)
Why the requirement for an FO to have both 500 TT and 500 PIC? From what I know Part 135 doesn't have a PIC time requirement on props.

You're right. I don't know. Was that in a post somewhere about available positions?

My guess it was a typo because to the best of my knowledge we have no PIC requirement for FO positions.

BlueJacketGuy 08-12-2017 09:14 AM


Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr (Post 2409283)
You're right. I don't know. Was that in a post somewhere about available positions?

My guess it was a typo because to the best of my knowledge we have no PIC requirement for FO positions.

It's on the main site where the hours mins are. It would make sense to me if there were PIC mins your needed when becoming a Captain, but I checked part 135 and the crewmember mins didn't specify PIC time, only TT to act as PIC.

FreightDogs 08-14-2017 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by BlueJacketGuy (Post 2409291)
It's on the main site where the hours mins are. It would make sense to me if there were PIC mins your needed when becoming a Captain, but I checked part 135 and the crewmember mins didn't specify PIC time, only TT to act as PIC.

Hi!

Unfortunately, the PIC time is not a typo.
Our min for PIC time for First Officers in the EMB120 is 500.
It's not an FAA requirement, but a company requirement.
At times, it can be negotiable if your other times are pretty high, but for the most part, 500 is needed.
That usually means, you'll come in with 525+TT if you have the 500 PIC (since not all your time through training is PIC).

Feel free to ask more questions!

frmrbuffdrvr 08-14-2017 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by FreightDogs (Post 2410566)
Hi!

Unfortunately, the PIC time is not a typo.
Our min for PIC time for First Officers in the EMB120 is 500.
It's not an FAA requirement, but a company requirement.
At times, it can be negotiable if your other times are pretty high, but for the most part, 500 is needed.
That usually means, you'll come in with 525+TT if you have the 500 PIC (since not all your time through training is PIC).

Feel free to ask more questions!

Ok. So it is for the E120 but not the ACP? Or is it for both?

aeroengineer 08-14-2017 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by FreightDogs (Post 2410566)
Hi!

Unfortunately, the PIC time is not a typo.
Our min for PIC time for First Officers in the EMB120 is 500.
It's not an FAA requirement, but a company requirement.
At times, it can be negotiable if your other times are pretty high, but for the most part, 500 is needed.
That usually means, you'll come in with 525+TT if you have the 500 PIC (since not all your time through training is PIC).

Feel free to ask more questions!

Typically how many months will you have fly right seat to get the 700 or so additional hours to meet the 1200 hour part 135 mins needed to move to the left seat? Thanks


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