Ameriflight
06-22-2017, 10:19 AM
#3791
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr
It doesn't directly affect the current pilots as it is a UPS program for their interns to hire on here to build time. There is currently no way for a current AMF pilot to move into the program. But the hope (and what AMF is pushing for) is that it will lead to a program for pilots who come direct to AMF to move through to UPS at some point in the future.
06-22-2017, 10:22 AM
#3792
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by Hand Commander
Thanks, but it was a rhetorical question. Since the employee/pilot calls are not mandatory and I'm guessing a fraction of the total pilot group actually participates in the calls, management still chose not to release a memo that would inform everyone. Its really not surprising based on the revolving door of management positions in Dallas over the last couple years and the promotion of people into those positions by default rather than by their qualifications. The UPS program is a step in the right direction, but the benefits are not going to be seen for quite some time. 1500 hours in type rated equipment and 30 months flying the line is obviously a minimum of 2.5 years away. My guess is that UPS won't look at "flow through" AMF captains until they are sure their interns can make it through UPS training after flying for AMF. Again, several years away. A schedule of 4 on 3 off is a cute goal to have, but last time AMF was fat on pilots, they temporarily furloughed the new hires instead of incorporating them into the schedule to give relief to the pilot group. They would need dozens more pilots to make that schedule work. Hopefully AMF can keep the doors open long enough to see the results of the program.
AMF management credibility..... ZERO
06-22-2017, 10:39 AM
#3794
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Any
Posts: 656
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
How come some AMF pilots were the polo shirts and some are in full airline pilot regalia, complete with tie?
06-22-2017, 10:46 AM
#3795
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Any
Posts: 656
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
How would that benefit UPS and the UPS pilots? Other than flying mostly at night, what carryover would an AMF pilot bring to UPS as an asset?
I don't know. What asset does any pilot bring to a different company? Their flying skills? Their work ethic?
Seems to me that too much emphasis seems to be made of jet time. In my experience, the only thing more difficult about flying a jet than a turboprop is that you need to plan your arrival speed adjustments more carefully because you can't slow down as quickly. Unless you want to use the spoilers.
06-22-2017, 09:28 PM
#3796
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr
A first hand understanding of UPS operations?
I don't know. What asset does any pilot bring to a different company? Their flying skills? Their work ethic?
Seems to me that too much emphasis seems to be made of jet time. In my experience, the only thing more difficult about flying a jet than a turboprop is that you need to plan your arrival speed adjustments more carefully because you can't slow down as quickly. Unless you want to use the spoilers.
I don't know. What asset does any pilot bring to a different company? Their flying skills? Their work ethic?
Seems to me that too much emphasis seems to be made of jet time. In my experience, the only thing more difficult about flying a jet than a turboprop is that you need to plan your arrival speed adjustments more carefully because you can't slow down as quickly. Unless you want to use the spoilers.
The hilarious aspect of somebody with zero jet time commenting on how to fly a jet isn't lost on me, however it isn't so much about it being harder, it's just different. Single pilot IFR in a turboprop twin is harder than everything, however its the least desired industry position by almost every airline that can hire able bodied jet pilots. UPS is an airline, AMF is nothing like an airline. AMF makes good single engine turboprop pilots, problem is, there are thousands of well qualified, true multi crew, jet pilots looking to work at UPS, with a large percentage of those being pilots with heavy jet international time. Once that crop of pilots dries up, you bet that UPS will be hiring turboprop guys, it all trickles down.
I would be shocked to see an actual flow to any company. So far, every agreement between AMF and another company has been riddled with prerequisites and ambiguous wording to make it very hard to understand and even harder to take advantage of.
06-22-2017, 10:57 PM
#3797
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by Jetlife
AMF pilots don't have a first hand knowledge of UPS. They have a first hand knowledge of a part of the feeder structure. AMF pilots who fly UPS runs aren't held to UPS SOPs or policies. You carry brown boxes, that's it.
The hilarious aspect of somebody with zero jet time commenting on how to fly a jet isn't lost on me, however it isn't so much about it being harder, it's just different. Single pilot IFR in a turboprop twin is harder than everything, however its the least desired industry position by almost every airline that can hire able bodied jet pilots. UPS is an airline, AMF is nothing like an airline. AMF makes good single engine turboprop pilots, problem is, there are thousands of well qualified, true multi crew, jet pilots looking to work at UPS, with a large percentage of those being pilots with heavy jet international time. Once that crop of pilots dries up, you bet that UPS will be hiring turboprop guys, it all trickles down.
I would be shocked to see an actual flow to any company. So far, every agreement between AMF and another company has been riddled with prerequisites and ambiguous wording to make it very hard to understand and even harder to take advantage of.
The hilarious aspect of somebody with zero jet time commenting on how to fly a jet isn't lost on me, however it isn't so much about it being harder, it's just different. Single pilot IFR in a turboprop twin is harder than everything, however its the least desired industry position by almost every airline that can hire able bodied jet pilots. UPS is an airline, AMF is nothing like an airline. AMF makes good single engine turboprop pilots, problem is, there are thousands of well qualified, true multi crew, jet pilots looking to work at UPS, with a large percentage of those being pilots with heavy jet international time. Once that crop of pilots dries up, you bet that UPS will be hiring turboprop guys, it all trickles down.
I would be shocked to see an actual flow to any company. So far, every agreement between AMF and another company has been riddled with prerequisites and ambiguous wording to make it very hard to understand and even harder to take advantage of.
06-23-2017, 05:21 AM
#3798
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
Sounds like AMF worded it deliberately that way as bait to lure newbies thinking that they would "flow" to the partner airline after putting in the required time.
06-23-2017, 05:23 AM
#3799
Ameriflight
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by Jetlife
AMF had to do something to attract people. The recruiters even call it a flow through (as seen on here) but isn't even close to a flow.
We have repeatedly on this thread referred to it as a Gateway Program only.
The other three we are calling a flow per each agreement signed by both parties.
06-23-2017, 05:27 AM
#3800
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by FreightDogs
We are not calling our UPS agreement a flow.
We have repeatedly on this thread referred to it as a Gateway Program only.
The other three we are calling a flow per each agreement signed by both parties.
We have repeatedly on this thread referred to it as a Gateway Program only.
The other three we are calling a flow per each agreement signed by both parties.
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