Part 135 pilot jumpseat on Part 121 or Fedex/UPS?
#21
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 9
and there’s always plenty of advance notice of these empty legs. So much so that we 121 guys can count on these empty legs weeks in advance for our commute!
This simply is NOT reciprocal. Period. No matter how you spin it.
No 135 folks on my jumpseat, regardless of whether my company strikes an agreement with this...uh..endeavor...unless it’s an empty leg. 🤣
This simply is NOT reciprocal. Period. No matter how you spin it.
No 135 folks on my jumpseat, regardless of whether my company strikes an agreement with this...uh..endeavor...unless it’s an empty leg. 🤣
I do love the irony in your statement, jumpseating has always been offered as-is. So let me ask you the same question.
If I was a airline pilot from another airline requesting a jumpseat on your aircraft, could you guarantee me a ride on your flight weeks in advance?
This system allows charter companies to create a jumpseat program where there are virtually no options for them.
We have designed this system to allow charter companies the ability to reciprocate as best as they can, which if you had any idea of the scale, is by no means a small contribution. By working together they would have a massive network with or without airline involvement. But we're all friends in the industry and so we built JumpHub in the spirit of including every operator right from the start. If airlines want to offer this to their pilots in the future, they are most welcome. If they don't, then charter still has viable options to get somewhere and save a few bucks doing so.
Will it work every time? No. Does jumpseating on airlines work every time? Not at all.
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Admiral
Posts: 726
Just out of curiosity, how many 135 pilots actually commute to work? And by commute, I don't mean homebased outfits that are required to buy you a ticket as part of the cost of doing business.
In the 121 world, it is common to commute to your base. Ultimately it is you responsibility to get there. Which is why the airline unions advocated for allowing pilots to utilize the jumpseat (it wasn't something that was given to pilots, it was fought for). Essentially, the use of the jumpseat is for commuting, not non-revving. Using it for non-rev purposes is looked down upon. So exactly how many 135 guys "commute" to work?
In the 121 world, it is common to commute to your base. Ultimately it is you responsibility to get there. Which is why the airline unions advocated for allowing pilots to utilize the jumpseat (it wasn't something that was given to pilots, it was fought for). Essentially, the use of the jumpseat is for commuting, not non-revving. Using it for non-rev purposes is looked down upon. So exactly how many 135 guys "commute" to work?
#23
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 9
Just out of curiosity, how many 135 pilots actually commute to work? And by commute, I don't mean homebased outfits that are required to buy you a ticket as part of the cost of doing business.
In the 121 world, it is common to commute to your base. Ultimately it is you responsibility to get there. Which is why the airline unions advocated for allowing pilots to utilize the jumpseat (it wasn't something that was given to pilots, it was fought for). Essentially, the use of the jumpseat is for commuting, not non-revving. Using it for non-rev purposes is looked down upon. So exactly how many 135 guys "commute" to work?
In the 121 world, it is common to commute to your base. Ultimately it is you responsibility to get there. Which is why the airline unions advocated for allowing pilots to utilize the jumpseat (it wasn't something that was given to pilots, it was fought for). Essentially, the use of the jumpseat is for commuting, not non-revving. Using it for non-rev purposes is looked down upon. So exactly how many 135 guys "commute" to work?
Thanks for the question.
Not every company is the same but I know a great many similar to mine. We have no home basing and you must have a 2 hour callout when "on" for their monthly rotation.
For our company nearly half of them commute to Texas for their rotation.
We have pilots that live in San Diego, Las Vegas, salt lake, WI, New York, New Mexico, Florida. All are responsible for getting themselves to work each month. Sometimes they get lucky with an internal empty going their direction.
One spends $800.00 per month. If I can save them one flight or enable them to jumpseat even halfway to a mid city center, it could save them hundreds.
Thanks
#25
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 3
Can you imagine checking in for a jumpseat only to be bumped by a charter bubba? I say this as a former charter guy myself.
I think this thread should also clarify some distinctions. There are many 135s that actively participate in and contribute to CASS: Boutique, Cape Air, Mokulele, JSX, Contour to name a few.
These are essentially airlines... they have commuters, have recip jumpseat agreements, have OAL jumpseaters...but most importantly, they’re scheduled.
I get the idea of jumphub but I don’t see it crossing into 121 or scheduled 135 at all. It’s just an empty leg advertising service from what I can gather.
Amongst unscheduled 135s? Sure! But it absolutely does not solve a problem on the scheduled 135/121 side of the house. I cannot imagine a CASS carrier even agreeing to anything close to this with a non-CASS carrier. Too easy to abuse.
Further, looks like the pilots have to pay to participate?? That’s about where the show and conversation stops entirely in my opinion. Just join and participate in an empty legs group on Facebook for free at that point.
In the words of Mr. Wonderful, I’m out.
I think this thread should also clarify some distinctions. There are many 135s that actively participate in and contribute to CASS: Boutique, Cape Air, Mokulele, JSX, Contour to name a few.
These are essentially airlines... they have commuters, have recip jumpseat agreements, have OAL jumpseaters...but most importantly, they’re scheduled.
I get the idea of jumphub but I don’t see it crossing into 121 or scheduled 135 at all. It’s just an empty leg advertising service from what I can gather.
Amongst unscheduled 135s? Sure! But it absolutely does not solve a problem on the scheduled 135/121 side of the house. I cannot imagine a CASS carrier even agreeing to anything close to this with a non-CASS carrier. Too easy to abuse.
Further, looks like the pilots have to pay to participate?? That’s about where the show and conversation stops entirely in my opinion. Just join and participate in an empty legs group on Facebook for free at that point.
In the words of Mr. Wonderful, I’m out.
#26
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,565
I flew for Ameriflight back in the day, and it would crack me up when I was told I had a SWA jumpseater asking for a ride home... in a Piper Lance!
20 years later, I'm a SWA pilot, and yes, we still have a jumpseat agreement with Ameriflight, and I would bend over backwards to help them on.
Having said that, business jet charter would be a tad difficult. For starters, paying for any service to see empty legs? Hard pass. We don't do that. Also, having done this line of work before, what happens if you get a last minute passenger... do you kick off the jumpseater? We know the answer to that. What about if you get a message to divert someplace and pick up a group of passengers? You will leave a jumpseater at some podunk airport with no airline service. See the problem?
BTW FlyHayes... jumpseat is for pilots' personal use and no, non-reving using a jumpseat is NOT frowned upon. That's what it's literally there for... whether you're commuting to/from work, going to see family or friends, going on vacation, who cares... you're a pilot, it is our negotiated benefit, welcome aboard. What you DON'T do is use the jumpseat to save your company money. That's a cardinal no-no and one of the quickest ways to lose a reciprocal agreement or get banned.
20 years later, I'm a SWA pilot, and yes, we still have a jumpseat agreement with Ameriflight, and I would bend over backwards to help them on.
Having said that, business jet charter would be a tad difficult. For starters, paying for any service to see empty legs? Hard pass. We don't do that. Also, having done this line of work before, what happens if you get a last minute passenger... do you kick off the jumpseater? We know the answer to that. What about if you get a message to divert someplace and pick up a group of passengers? You will leave a jumpseater at some podunk airport with no airline service. See the problem?
BTW FlyHayes... jumpseat is for pilots' personal use and no, non-reving using a jumpseat is NOT frowned upon. That's what it's literally there for... whether you're commuting to/from work, going to see family or friends, going on vacation, who cares... you're a pilot, it is our negotiated benefit, welcome aboard. What you DON'T do is use the jumpseat to save your company money. That's a cardinal no-no and one of the quickest ways to lose a reciprocal agreement or get banned.
#27
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 9
Can you imagine checking in for a jumpseat only to be bumped by a charter bubba? I say this as a former charter guy myself.
I think this thread should also clarify some distinctions. There are many 135s that actively participate in and contribute to CASS: Boutique, Cape Air, Mokulele, JSX, Contour to name a few.
These are essentially airlines... they have commuters, have recip jumpseat agreements, have OAL jumpseaters...but most importantly, they’re scheduled.
I get the idea of jumphub but I don’t see it crossing into 121 or scheduled 135 at all. It’s just an empty leg advertising service from what I can gather.
Amongst unscheduled 135s? Sure! But it absolutely does not solve a problem on the scheduled 135/121 side of the house. I cannot imagine a CASS carrier even agreeing to anything close to this with a non-CASS carrier. Too easy to abuse.
Further, looks like the pilots have to pay to participate?? That’s about where the show and conversation stops entirely in my opinion. Just join and participate in an empty legs group on Facebook for free at that point.
In the words of Mr. Wonderful, I’m out.
I think this thread should also clarify some distinctions. There are many 135s that actively participate in and contribute to CASS: Boutique, Cape Air, Mokulele, JSX, Contour to name a few.
These are essentially airlines... they have commuters, have recip jumpseat agreements, have OAL jumpseaters...but most importantly, they’re scheduled.
I get the idea of jumphub but I don’t see it crossing into 121 or scheduled 135 at all. It’s just an empty leg advertising service from what I can gather.
Amongst unscheduled 135s? Sure! But it absolutely does not solve a problem on the scheduled 135/121 side of the house. I cannot imagine a CASS carrier even agreeing to anything close to this with a non-CASS carrier. Too easy to abuse.
Further, looks like the pilots have to pay to participate?? That’s about where the show and conversation stops entirely in my opinion. Just join and participate in an empty legs group on Facebook for free at that point.
In the words of Mr. Wonderful, I’m out.
This is a quality product with every detail thought out. It has been built around CASS, Non-CASS, security procedures already in use, automatic notification to captains, and jumpseaters of identities and jumpseat procedures, operators can customize their procedures, manual revisions, liability protection for operators. I could go on. So no we aren't just a empty leg clearing house, we dont make any commissions etc. this is just to encourage use - if an empty leg or cargo flight is entered already the operator may as well market it also, the reality is most empty legs will still go empty to their intended destination. 30-40 percent of al charter flights are repo legs- that's a lot!
It costs a lot of money to put this program together and maintain the system, in order to encourage operators to participate we have kept the cost low for them as there are far too many software companies sticking it to the operators already. I think CASS starts at $800 per month for up to 50 pilots.
We charge a small fee to the pilots that actually want to benefit from this, it is no different than your company enrolling in the KCM program and having the pilots pay if they want one, many charter companies do this already.
Operators can cover this for their pilots should they so desire but the idea of keeping operator accounts very inexpensive is to get more operators in the system, which in turn means more options for pilots.
We already have a charter operator in the system who is a CASS carrier, they can accept non CASS pilots and are glad to do so, jumpseaters can be treated as passengers and vetted appropriately. Only pilots who are added to the system by their approved operators can access the system so there is very little chance of abuse - this is exactly how CASS is run.
We've hashed out every situation and the software handles it one way or another.
Thanks for the feedback
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,236
Just out of curiosity, how many 135 pilots actually commute to work? And by commute, I don't mean homebased outfits that are required to buy you a ticket as part of the cost of doing business.
In the 121 world, it is common to commute to your base. Ultimately it is you responsibility to get there. Which is why the airline unions advocated for allowing pilots to utilize the jumpseat (it wasn't something that was given to pilots, it was fought for). Essentially, the use of the jumpseat is for commuting, not non-revving. Using it for non-rev purposes is looked down upon. So exactly how many 135 guys "commute" to work?
In the 121 world, it is common to commute to your base. Ultimately it is you responsibility to get there. Which is why the airline unions advocated for allowing pilots to utilize the jumpseat (it wasn't something that was given to pilots, it was fought for). Essentially, the use of the jumpseat is for commuting, not non-revving. Using it for non-rev purposes is looked down upon. So exactly how many 135 guys "commute" to work?
#29
Can you imagine checking in for a jumpseat only to be bumped by a charter bubba? I say this as a former charter guy myself.
I think this thread should also clarify some distinctions. There are many 135s that actively participate in and contribute to CASS: Boutique, Cape Air, Mokulele, JSX, Contour to name a few.
These are essentially airlines... they have commuters, have recip jumpseat agreements, have OAL jumpseaters...but most importantly, they’re scheduled.
I get the idea of jumphub but I don’t see it crossing into 121 or scheduled 135 at all. It’s just an empty leg advertising service from what I can gather.
Amongst unscheduled 135s? Sure! But it absolutely does not solve a problem on the scheduled 135/121 side of the house. I cannot imagine a CASS carrier even agreeing to anything close to this with a non-CASS carrier. Too easy to abuse.
Further, looks like the pilots have to pay to participate?? That’s about where the show and conversation stops entirely in my opinion. Just join and participate in an empty legs group on Facebook for free at that point.
In the words of Mr. Wonderful, I’m out.
I think this thread should also clarify some distinctions. There are many 135s that actively participate in and contribute to CASS: Boutique, Cape Air, Mokulele, JSX, Contour to name a few.
These are essentially airlines... they have commuters, have recip jumpseat agreements, have OAL jumpseaters...but most importantly, they’re scheduled.
I get the idea of jumphub but I don’t see it crossing into 121 or scheduled 135 at all. It’s just an empty leg advertising service from what I can gather.
Amongst unscheduled 135s? Sure! But it absolutely does not solve a problem on the scheduled 135/121 side of the house. I cannot imagine a CASS carrier even agreeing to anything close to this with a non-CASS carrier. Too easy to abuse.
Further, looks like the pilots have to pay to participate?? That’s about where the show and conversation stops entirely in my opinion. Just join and participate in an empty legs group on Facebook for free at that point.
In the words of Mr. Wonderful, I’m out.
I agree with you except the jumpseat being used to non-rev is frowned upon.
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 498
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post