Part 135 pilot jumpseat on Part 121 or Fedex/UPS?
 

Hi everyone, i would like to know if it possible for a Part 135 guy to jumpseat on 121 or other cargo ops. My company does not have jumpseat agreement with anyone i believe.

Welcome Aboard
 

When I was flying for one of the "big majors", we allowed pilots from FAR Part 135 carriers to jumpseat with the proper credentials. In a post 9/11 world, I'm certain that you have to be in the CASS system to gain access to a jumpseat with just about anyone. TSA requirements I believe.

Maybe some more enlightened soul can provide the regulation, book, verse, etc. of TSA/FAA scripture but I'd bet a six pack of good German/Czech brew on it.

G'Luck Mate:)

No CASS...No Jumpseat!

I highly doubt that you would be able to get past the ticket counter or the gate agent.... that being said.... I would look down at attempting to jumpseat when as you have said your company doesn't have any agreements with anyone. I did my time with a similar company and was very clearly that if the company found us trying to jumpseat with anyone that our jobs were at stake.
I would recommend just waiting until you work for a company that is CASS and whatnot..... but then again..... I now agree with those who warned you against going to work for your current employer.

Good luck....

B

Lets just say instead of using the term "jumpseat" we called it "non-rev" would that change whether or not we could jumpseat?

I posted this in another thread but here it is again.

I work for a small 135 cargo operator who does not have jumpseat agreements with anyone, however i had heard that some airlines all part 135 pilots to jumpseat.

I did some research and found this document online. keep in mind this is over 7 years old so im not sure if much has changed.

http://www.webnetdesigns.com/aia/jsguide.pdf

here is an excerpt on Jetblue:

Unlimited open cabin seats, and two extra flight attendant jumpseats are offered to all
FAR Part 121 and 135 pilots. Riding the jumpseat is at the captain’s discretion. Noncockpit
jumpseats are offered to all flight attendants. A reciprocal agreement is not
required. Website: JetBlue | Airline Tickets, Flights, and Airfare.

If I'm correct, I would be allowed to jumpseat with JetBlue?
Can someone give me some insight?

Thank You!

I know that Hawaiian Airlines has a open jumpseat policy, only in the back though. I used to catch rides with them all the time when I worked in Hawaii and to the mainland too!

You don't have to be in CASS to catch a ride in the back of the plane only the front. Lot of Captains are pretty cool and will let you on even if you don't have an agreement. The only problem is getting pass the ticket and gate agents.

I work for a small 135 and we can ride in the back on southwest. I haven't tried to see if it works or not though.

Airnet is/was in CASS.

They have reciprocal agreements with a good many companies, but there were a few exceptions like Delta.

AirTran, Southwest, Mesaba, and United were the ones I used primarily. It was a great deal. I rode in the back except for one time riding United to Hawaii. :)

Long story short,
Yes 135 can jumpseat.

Sure, Cape Air is CASS and we're able to jumpseat on just about everyone. Doesn't matter if you're 121 or 135; if you're in CASS and have reciprocal agreements in place, you're able to jumpseat.

It works, dude. I've done it five or six times. But we have an agreement. Southwest does not have "open" 135 rides. Last I read a few places still do...GoJet, believe it or not, commutair, polar/atlas...

Without CASS you are excluded from the flight deck. Without a reciprocal agreement, you're out of luck except for a few who do offer "J/S privileges" for open seats in the main cabin. Last I heard, Southwest and Jetblue offered unlimited seats to 135 pilots. Call Res to list and check loads, then check with the ticket counter or gate agent. Last, but not least, when given a seat by the agent, stop at the flight deck and check in with the crew. Have your current badge, license, and medical ready, (In my experience about 50% want to look at my credentials) say something to the effect of "Hi, I'm Joe Pilot from XYZ Air, I'd like to ask for a ride; the girls at the gate have already given me a seat in back."

Best of luck!

Thanks! everyone!

New universal jumpseat program for 135's!!
 

Hey Team,

I am a charter jet captain in the USA, I was every frustrated with not being able to jumpseat properly like our 121 counterparts so I did something about it.

We have created a new universal jumpseat software that caters to all operators including 135.

You can find us on Facebook and instagram under JumpHub.

Talk to your operator about registering!

Thanks for spamming and opening up a thread over 11 years old

Cool story, can we jumpseat on your charters too? Seat in the back obviously...

Hi,

You're welcome!

But seriously, we've built it, it is live and we have operators on board.

Take a read through the pilots FAQ's :)

Thanks!

Yes! Yes you can!

We have designed this to include 121 if they desire!

We have built this system around common security programs in place, all jumpseaters are vetted IAW any applicable security program and given a seat in the cabin.

Take a read through the Pilots and operators FAQ's, all the information is there.

www.jumphub.aero

We have customers in the system and more are coming online shortly.

Let me know if I can help with any questions.

Wouldn't the charter passenger complain if there's a jumpseater riding along for free?

Hi, jumpseaters can be accepted on charter empty legs, scheduled cargo flights or airlines if they want to participate.
30-40 of all charter flights are repositioning or empty, that's a lot of flights.

and there’s always plenty of advance notice of these empty legs. So much so that we 121 guys can count on these empty legs weeks in advance for our commute!

This simply is NOT reciprocal. Period. No matter how you spin it.

No 135 folks on my jumpseat, regardless of whether my company strikes an agreement with this...uh..endeavor...unless it’s an empty leg. 🤣

Hi BrickHut, thanks for the feedback,

I do love the irony in your statement, jumpseating has always been offered as-is. So let me ask you the same question.

If I was a airline pilot from another airline requesting a jumpseat on your aircraft, could you guarantee me a ride on your flight weeks in advance?

This system allows charter companies to create a jumpseat program where there are virtually no options for them.

We have designed this system to allow charter companies the ability to reciprocate as best as they can, which if you had any idea of the scale, is by no means a small contribution. By working together they would have a massive network with or without airline involvement. But we're all friends in the industry and so we built JumpHub in the spirit of including every operator right from the start. If airlines want to offer this to their pilots in the future, they are most welcome. If they don't, then charter still has viable options to get somewhere and save a few bucks doing so.

Will it work every time? No. Does jumpseating on airlines work every time? Not at all.

Just out of curiosity, how many 135 pilots actually commute to work? And by commute, I don't mean homebased outfits that are required to buy you a ticket as part of the cost of doing business.
In the 121 world, it is common to commute to your base. Ultimately it is you responsibility to get there. Which is why the airline unions advocated for allowing pilots to utilize the jumpseat (it wasn't something that was given to pilots, it was fought for). Essentially, the use of the jumpseat is for commuting, not non-revving. Using it for non-rev purposes is looked down upon. So exactly how many 135 guys "commute" to work?

Hi Flyhayes,

Thanks for the question.

Not every company is the same but I know a great many similar to mine. We have no home basing and you must have a 2 hour callout when "on" for their monthly rotation.

For our company nearly half of them commute to Texas for their rotation.
We have pilots that live in San Diego, Las Vegas, salt lake, WI, New York, New Mexico, Florida. All are responsible for getting themselves to work each month. Sometimes they get lucky with an internal empty going their direction.
One spends $800.00 per month. If I can save them one flight or enable them to jumpseat even halfway to a mid city center, it could save them hundreds.

Thanks

Jumpseating is a transactional agreement between carriers.
What are you (135) going to give us (121) that is remotely useful?
Not saying that I don’t like your idea I just don’t see it working.

Can you imagine checking in for a jumpseat only to be bumped by a charter bubba? I say this as a former charter guy myself.

I think this thread should also clarify some distinctions. There are many 135s that actively participate in and contribute to CASS: Boutique, Cape Air, Mokulele, JSX, Contour to name a few.
These are essentially airlines... they have commuters, have recip jumpseat agreements, have OAL jumpseaters...but most importantly, they’re scheduled.

I get the idea of jumphub but I don’t see it crossing into 121 or scheduled 135 at all. It’s just an empty leg advertising service from what I can gather.
Amongst unscheduled 135s? Sure! But it absolutely does not solve a problem on the scheduled 135/121 side of the house. I cannot imagine a CASS carrier even agreeing to anything close to this with a non-CASS carrier. Too easy to abuse.

Further, looks like the pilots have to pay to participate?? That’s about where the show and conversation stops entirely in my opinion. Just join and participate in an empty legs group on Facebook for free at that point.

In the words of Mr. Wonderful, I’m out.

I flew for Ameriflight back in the day, and it would crack me up when I was told I had a SWA jumpseater asking for a ride home... in a Piper Lance!

20 years later, I'm a SWA pilot, and yes, we still have a jumpseat agreement with Ameriflight, and I would bend over backwards to help them on.

Having said that, business jet charter would be a tad difficult. For starters, paying for any service to see empty legs? Hard pass. We don't do that. Also, having done this line of work before, what happens if you get a last minute passenger... do you kick off the jumpseater? We know the answer to that. What about if you get a message to divert someplace and pick up a group of passengers? You will leave a jumpseater at some podunk airport with no airline service. See the problem?

BTW FlyHayes... jumpseat is for pilots' personal use and no, non-reving using a jumpseat is NOT frowned upon. That's what it's literally there for... whether you're commuting to/from work, going to see family or friends, going on vacation, who cares... you're a pilot, it is our negotiated benefit, welcome aboard. What you DON'T do is use the jumpseat to save your company money. That's a cardinal no-no and one of the quickest ways to lose a reciprocal agreement or get banned.

This is a quality product with every detail thought out. It has been built around CASS, Non-CASS, security procedures already in use, automatic notification to captains, and jumpseaters of identities and jumpseat procedures, operators can customize their procedures, manual revisions, liability protection for operators. I could go on. So no we aren't just a empty leg clearing house, we dont make any commissions etc. this is just to encourage use - if an empty leg or cargo flight is entered already the operator may as well market it also, the reality is most empty legs will still go empty to their intended destination. 30-40 percent of al charter flights are repo legs- that's a lot!

It costs a lot of money to put this program together and maintain the system, in order to encourage operators to participate we have kept the cost low for them as there are far too many software companies sticking it to the operators already. I think CASS starts at $800 per month for up to 50 pilots.

We charge a small fee to the pilots that actually want to benefit from this, it is no different than your company enrolling in the KCM program and having the pilots pay if they want one, many charter companies do this already.

Operators can cover this for their pilots should they so desire but the idea of keeping operator accounts very inexpensive is to get more operators in the system, which in turn means more options for pilots.

We already have a charter operator in the system who is a CASS carrier, they can accept non CASS pilots and are glad to do so, jumpseaters can be treated as passengers and vetted appropriately. Only pilots who are added to the system by their approved operators can access the system so there is very little chance of abuse - this is exactly how CASS is run.

We've hashed out every situation and the software handles it one way or another.

Thanks for the feedback

Using the jumpseat to non-rev is looked down upon by who? News to me. I’ve done it many times and had many on my jumpseat.

I agree with you except the jumpseat being used to non-rev is frowned upon.

I use it to non rev all the time. If someone else is going to work, I’ll always let them have it though. News to me that it’s looked down on.

A thought for airline pilots.
 

A thought for all 121 pilots.

JumpHub enables you to get the most out of agreements your airlines may already have, such as cargo and unscheduled operators that your airline has agreements with now.

Some of these operations have non existent schedules or no easy way to search and request a ride.

Picture this, you are denied boarding on your last available non-rev flight home and you look down the airport and see a bunch of cargo guys, your airline has and agreement with most of these but how do you find out the schedule? How do you request?

Most have a "call Dispatch" or "submit a form" button for all jumpseat requests. That is if you can even find their schedule or pop up flights that you could use.

I challenge any 121 pilot to go through their ops manual and see what agreements their airline has with every cargo or unscheduled operator, and try to figure out how to find a flight and request one with each.

The systems are virtually non existent or inconvenient. I flew for an unscheduled CASS operator and we almost never utilized it because schedules were non existent or cumbersome to request, especially in a hurry.

JumpHub centralizes everything for you in a one stop shop for Jumpseat requests on these operators.

135 empty legs are just a small part of the wider program.

Thanks.

You know that's all available in the alpa app, right? Same exact information, in a list with links to timetables.... it's a good thought but I'll accept the challenge.

I think I know the answer to the question I'm about to ask but I just want to confirm it with others. I'm currently a PC-12 pilot at a Part 135 medevac operator in the upper midwest. I've worked at both 135 and 121 companies that had CASS privileges and I recently thought to myself "Huh...I wonder if a medevac operator could get CASS privileges and KCM." So, my question is, is it possible for a 135 medevac operation to have CASS and jumpseat agreements with airlines? If so, how would one go about connecting with airlines to form agreements on this?

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.

You’d need to check with jumpseat coordinators at various airlines to establish a reciprocal agreement. The question is how would you be able to reciprocate?

Ah.

Again, Why are these charter operators not buying these guys positive space tickets to the airplane?

Scenario.
So I am assigned to an airplane that is in Dallas. But I live in Seattle. Its currently the 31st of the month. The company says "Get to Dallas on the 1st". I look at tickets on Delta but oh damn, they are $799. One way. And thats Economy. So I hop on jumphub. Oh look, a CL350 is heading from BFI to DAL in 7 hours! Sweet. I coordinate it all up and drive to BFI. Get to the FBO and the plane departed 2 hours ago to VNY to head to TEB. DAMN! So now I go back to SEA to try to get on the Delta flight which is now $1200 one way. But oh wait! I have a jumphub app and I say "hey I can just hop on Delta to work!" But oh wait, Im not cockpit authorized and the flight has 30 non revs listed. And Delta wouldn't join Jumpnet. I can't afford the $1200 ticket because my monthly take-home is 1200 after taxes. I call my company scheduling and say I can't make the report time for the flight. They say " Oh too bad. Enjoy your time off. With no pay".
I cry. I apply at Starbucks again.




Sooo.

Sounds like an "interesting" operation...

You won’t be able to reciprocate.