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Old 10-05-2008, 03:37 PM   #1  
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Default Logging SIC

I have an opportunity to fly a PA31 and was wondering about how I can (if I can) log it. I have taken one flight and need advice.

I am 135 current in a C340 and a C182.

The PA31 is rated for one pilot.

The one flight I took was an IFR flight and the company had me sign the SIC sheet.

The insurance company required a second pilot.

First off is there even and SIC 135 check ride for a PA31 which is a single pilot airplane?

Can I legally log 135 SIC or only 91 PIC?

Thanks for the help all.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:39 PM   #2  
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There is indeed a 135 check that is good for SIC only. I flew King Airs and a 421 as PIC, and there was a 135 checked SIC. He did his checkride with the POI after one of my checks.

I don't think he logged his time as SIC. I didn't log any time as a King Air or piston twin SIC.

Some people have argued that if you are assigned as SIC per 135, you can log it. Especially if the company does not have the OP SPEC for autopilot-in lieu of SIC.

I don't think I would log Navajo SIC time.

The only times I have logged SIC time---

1. In a two pilot airplane where I was required to be there.

2. In a type-rating required airplane that could be flown single pilot, but the PIC did not have a single pilot type rating. In that case, I had to be there too.

Example--A Premier is a single pilot airplane as long as you have an RA-390 S type. If you have a RA-390 type (no S ), then you are required to fly with an SIC. It even spells it out in the Limitations section of the AFM.


Will your SIC Navajo job turn into a PIC job? If that is the case, I would not let time logging issues keep you from it (assuming it is a good deal).
The company may have you log some PIC time under part 91 for you to qualify for 135 PIC.
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:03 PM   #3  
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I know that if the company requires a "two-pilot" crew or auto-pilot in lieu of the SIC, then, by all means log SIC time. Even if the airplane is rated for the use of only one pilot according to the AFM. Check out the company's ops. specs. and ops. manual for sure.
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:53 PM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainTeezy View Post
I have an opportunity to fly a PA31 and was wondering about how I can (if I can) log it. I have taken one flight and need advice.

I am 135 current in a C340 and a C182.

The PA31 is rated for one pilot.

The one flight I took was an IFR flight and the company had me sign the SIC sheet.

The insurance company required a second pilot.

First off is there even and SIC 135 check ride for a PA31 which is a single pilot airplane?

Can I legally log 135 SIC or only 91 PIC?

Thanks for the help all.

If you are not current and qualified in THAT aircraft for THAT company you are not allowed to manipulate the flight controls. If they had you sign anything they did something illegal. Plain and simple. They know that you are not current and qualifed for their 135 in that aircraft. I see in your profile that you have a "135 death wish". If you keep doing stuff like that you may want to change it to "pilot certificate death wish".
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:40 AM   #5  
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Ditto above.....
1. Must be stated as such in the Ops Specs for that particular company
2. Must be current and have proof of training per 91 and 135 regs.

.....if so....log away.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:35 AM   #6  
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Hey thanks all...I checked out the paper work and I realized the form I signed was for a different flight. The particular flight in the PA31 did not require two pilots. So basically as I suspected I can only log the 91 legs as PIC...which is still pretty awesome. Thanks again all.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:36 AM   #7  
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135 deathwish? Remind me not to fly with this guy!

But as stated above, it's a big negative unless it's a Part 91 leg, then I'd ask the PIC if you can log that leg as PIC, because obviously anything else isn't really worth putting down.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:11 AM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanSD View Post
I know that if the company requires a "two-pilot" crew or auto-pilot in lieu of the SIC, then, by all means log SIC time. Even if the airplane is rated for the use of only one pilot according to the AFM. Check out the company's ops. specs. and ops. manual for sure.
Not exactly. In order to log SIC under these circumstances, you need...

1) An FAA approved OPSPEC which specifies that an SIC is required for that aircraft for the operation being conducted.
2) A checkride, or whatever training the OPSPEC requires for that seat.
3) To opere under the applicable rules (ie 135). It's possible that you could fly a 91 leg as SIC, but only if 1) and 2) apply, and the opspec allows it (ferry legs).

These things DO NOT constitute legal authorization to log SIC in a one pilot airplane:
1) Insurance requirements
2) Company policy (non-opspec)
3) Pay-for-training
4) CP verbal OK, etc.

In your case it was probably legal for you to ride shotgun for the insurance company. Signing a release as SIC was also legal as long as there is no ACTUAL opspec requirement for an SIC. Since no SIC really exists, you can call yourself anything you want...you could be the Great Pumpkin on that flight if you liked. Just don't log it.

However if the opspec DOES require or authorize an SIC and you signed for a 135 leg as SIC without having been trained, then you have a problem.

Better go read your opspec.
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Old 10-18-2008, 01:56 AM   #9  
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"Part 135 commuter operator seeks qualified candidates to work as line captains piloting Panther Chieftain aircraft for start-up commuter service in GA. This position is a full time position which will entail significant amounts of flying time. ATP required for Caption position only.Salary plus company benefits.

FO requirements- 400TT/100 multi"

www.flywingsair.com


Saw this posting on WFFF.....so in a pax carrying 135 commuter like this, SIC time could be logged as long as the FAA approved OPSPEC says one needs to be there, a 135 checkride is taken and/or it meets 135.101?
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:00 AM   #10  
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I was going through the opspecs for my old company and I found out...there was a simple opspec that said ...another pilot riding along in a company aircraft can be considered an SIC in training to become a PIC...so I guess I could log SIC.

It said nothing about an SIC checkride or the autopilot.
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