Eclipse SIC
10-10-2008, 05:37 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: CFII. MEI - C150 seatlocked.
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Eclipse SIC
I knew I would be hearing this sooner or later. The company I work at is trying to put an EA-500 on their charter certificate. We "senior" flight instructors are going to be the "eligable" SICs for the Eclipse. Under 135 the Eclipse has to have an SIC to be legal. My company is going to "135 train us" maybe 3 hours max..and all of our own studying with an oral after two weeks of self study.
Claiming that the Eclipse SIC training is "invaluable experience" and worth around $3000... they are thinking of a plan to basically not pay us SICs. I heard that a percentage of each flight would be taken from our pay to "repay" the "valuable SIC checkride". The other option was that we would not be paid at all until the "amount in $ of training was repaid through work". Basically assuming that us CFIs would be so awed at the fact we are getting to sit right seat in a jet that they could justify not paying us to run the 135 operation. Management claiming "this is the way of the industry, always has been and always will be"
The way is see it ...the Eclipse has to have two pilots to be ran legally 135...we dont fly...neither do they. Instead of a having a percentage taken out of each paycheck or flying for free..until we have "repaid training" they should just run a 6 month training contract that is pro-rated like every other 135 operation out there.
Now we get to the pay...assuming things work out and we do get paid... what would the going rate daily be for a contract Eciplse 135 SIC be?
Im assuming all trips that we do would be 700 NM or less assuming around 1.5 hours to 2 hours of flight each way. That being said if they choose to pay us $35 dollars a flight hour and try to justify that as decent "flight pay" i feel violated as an individual and as a pilot that people would think we will work for free.
Im thinking the Eciplse 500 should bring $200 a day minimum any thoughts on this situation?
flylow
Claiming that the Eclipse SIC training is "invaluable experience" and worth around $3000... they are thinking of a plan to basically not pay us SICs. I heard that a percentage of each flight would be taken from our pay to "repay" the "valuable SIC checkride". The other option was that we would not be paid at all until the "amount in $ of training was repaid through work". Basically assuming that us CFIs would be so awed at the fact we are getting to sit right seat in a jet that they could justify not paying us to run the 135 operation. Management claiming "this is the way of the industry, always has been and always will be"
The way is see it ...the Eclipse has to have two pilots to be ran legally 135...we dont fly...neither do they. Instead of a having a percentage taken out of each paycheck or flying for free..until we have "repaid training" they should just run a 6 month training contract that is pro-rated like every other 135 operation out there.
Now we get to the pay...assuming things work out and we do get paid... what would the going rate daily be for a contract Eciplse 135 SIC be?
Im assuming all trips that we do would be 700 NM or less assuming around 1.5 hours to 2 hours of flight each way. That being said if they choose to pay us $35 dollars a flight hour and try to justify that as decent "flight pay" i feel violated as an individual and as a pilot that people would think we will work for free.
Im thinking the Eciplse 500 should bring $200 a day minimum any thoughts on this situation?
flylow
Last edited by cappelation; 10-11-2008 at 10:55 AM.
10-10-2008, 05:51 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by cappelation
I knew I would be hearing this sooner or later. The company I work at is trying to put an EA-500 on their charter certificate. We "senior" flight instructors are going to be the "eligable" SICs for the Eclipse. Under 135 the Eclipse has to have an SIC to be legal. My company is going to "135 train us" maybe 3 hours max..and all of our own studying with an oral after two weeks of self study.
Claiming that the Eclipse SIC training is "invaluable experience" and worth around $3000... they are thinking of a plan to basically not pay us SICs. I heard that a percentage of each flight would be taken from our pay to "repay" the "valuable SIC checkride". The other option was that we would not be paid at all until the "amount in $ of training was repaid through work". Basically assuming that us CFIs would be so awed at the fact we are getting to sit right seat in a jet that they could justify not paying us to run the 135 operation. Management claiming "this is the way of the industry, always has been and always will be"
The way is see it ...the Eclipse has to have two pilots to be ran legally 135...we dont fly...neither do they. Instead of a having a percentage taken out of each paycheck or flying for free..until we have "repaid training" they should just run a 6 month training contract that is pro-rated like every other 135 operation out there.
Now we get to the pay...assuming things work out and we do get paid... what would the going rate daily be for a contract Eciplse 135 SIC be?
Im assuming all trips that we do would be 700 NM or less assuming around 1.5 hours to 2 hours of flight each way. That being said if they choose to pay us $35 dollars a flight hour and try to justify that as decent "flight pay" i feel violated as an individual and as a pilot that people would think we will f*cking work for free.
Im thinking the Eciplse 500 should bring $200 a day minimum any thoughts on this situation?
flylow
Claiming that the Eclipse SIC training is "invaluable experience" and worth around $3000... they are thinking of a plan to basically not pay us SICs. I heard that a percentage of each flight would be taken from our pay to "repay" the "valuable SIC checkride". The other option was that we would not be paid at all until the "amount in $ of training was repaid through work". Basically assuming that us CFIs would be so awed at the fact we are getting to sit right seat in a jet that they could justify not paying us to run the 135 operation. Management claiming "this is the way of the industry, always has been and always will be"
The way is see it ...the Eclipse has to have two pilots to be ran legally 135...we dont fly...neither do they. Instead of a having a percentage taken out of each paycheck or flying for free..until we have "repaid training" they should just run a 6 month training contract that is pro-rated like every other 135 operation out there.
Now we get to the pay...assuming things work out and we do get paid... what would the going rate daily be for a contract Eciplse 135 SIC be?
Im assuming all trips that we do would be 700 NM or less assuming around 1.5 hours to 2 hours of flight each way. That being said if they choose to pay us $35 dollars a flight hour and try to justify that as decent "flight pay" i feel violated as an individual and as a pilot that people would think we will f*cking work for free.
Im thinking the Eciplse 500 should bring $200 a day minimum any thoughts on this situation?
flylow
You may see it that way. The problem is the VAST majority of your peer flight instructors DON'T see it that way. To them it's a JET. It's COOL. They WILL fly it for FREE in order to get time in a JET.
You can hold out and do the "right thing". Unfortunately for you, you will be watching from the ground, that Eclipse take off with one of your fellow CFI's in the right see flying for free.
10-10-2008, 06:07 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: CFII. MEI - C150 seatlocked.
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i pulled one of the other cfi's aside today and had the talk with them about how we can't fly for free we have commercial licenses...if you fly for free you'll never get paid..and hes like well id do it for free if thats all were gonna get is time...which i can see that...id rather get the time...but i should team up with all the CFIs (3 of us) and set a plan towards this?
flylow
flylow
10-10-2008, 07:09 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
The Eclipse is a POS. Welcome to shiney jet syndrome... there always is some idiot with a commercial ticket that justified it to him/herself that they are getting valuable flight time... in a jet!!!.
10-10-2008, 07:14 PM
#7
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
I'm glad to see you have chosen NOT to fly for free. If you and all your comrades have the backbone to hold out, you will have won one small battle for all of us... and they WILL HAVE to pay someone.
But, $200 a day for SIC? If you pull that off I want to hire you for my contract negociations. My guess would be more along $80 per day (plus per diem for RONs): or about $1600 per month. For a comparison, most regionals pay $20-25 per hour first year sic and have 75 gaurantee or $1500-1800 per month. Sorry for the reality check
But, $200 a day for SIC? If you pull that off I want to hire you for my contract negociations. My guess would be more along $80 per day (plus per diem for RONs): or about $1600 per month. For a comparison, most regionals pay $20-25 per hour first year sic and have 75 gaurantee or $1500-1800 per month. Sorry for the reality check
10-10-2008, 07:18 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
I'm glad to see you have chosen NOT to fly for free. If you and all your comrades have the backbone to hold out, you will have won one small battle for all of us... and they WILL HAVE to pay someone.
But, $200 a day for SIC? If you pull that off I want to hire you for my contract negociations. My guess would be more along $80 per day (plus per diem for RONs): or about $1600 per month. For a comparison, most regionals pay $20-25 per hour first year sic and have 75 gaurantee or $1500-1800 per month. Sorry for the reality check
But, $200 a day for SIC? If you pull that off I want to hire you for my contract negociations. My guess would be more along $80 per day (plus per diem for RONs): or about $1600 per month. For a comparison, most regionals pay $20-25 per hour first year sic and have 75 gaurantee or $1500-1800 per month. Sorry for the reality check
You won't like the Eclipse
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