name10135

There are people who were not rumored who are innocents, and there ARE people still employed in HI who WERE involved with the terminations that occurred yesterday. As I do not have 25 posts yet, I cannot send PM's.

But when that changes under PM's things that cannot/should not be discussed publicly can be be discussed.

I know it's vague, but hopefully you can understand my / our position.

nancy33

Well I too am one of the fired few/many however mgt. would not answer any questions or even answer their phone... can you say guilt

skyDriver

You'll notice this is my first post after reading years of threads here. Kind of shows you the passion within me that Pacific Wings stirs.
I think your worries of "slander" or "libel" are symptoms of the emotional abuse you have suffered at Pacific Wings. In America, even if Gabe and Greg feel otherwise, it is your right to speak freely and without fear of prosecution or recrimination. So because I can relate to your horrific experience at Pacific Wings (Proud Ex-Employee myself), I would encourage you to share with the community the disgusting details of what happened to you, without fearing punishment. You've already been punished, and you're no longer an employee, and in addition to us, you should be telling your story to the Hawaii Labor Board, the Equal Rights Commission, the Maui Times, and an attorney in Honolulu named Carl Varady (look him up when you and your fired group are ready to act and let me know because I would love to add ammunition to your complaint). I considered legal action myself but decided to spend the $500 requested by Mr. Varady to investigate my case towards a new Bose headset, and to be honest, there is something to be said for moving on and not looking back, and I've enjoyed the use of a new headset exponentially more than pursuing a legal case against the revoltingly dispiciable management of Pacific Wings. And at the time, of course, money was tight for me and I had to choose carefully. But, as with anything, you get what you pay for, and Carl Varady is without a doubt worth every dollar. He brokered the largest settlement ever between an abused employee and their company.

In any case, I just wanted to let you know that as a victim myself, I encourage and support you to not be intimidated or be afraid in ANY WAY by the pathetic and spineless way you have been dealt with in Maui. Instead, try speaking up and out. Post liberally about your experiences on this and other aviation boards. Get the word out about what has happened to you so that others who are playing the email game with Chuck and Gabe, making airline reservations, and thinking about actually working at Pathetic Wings don't make the same mistake- although, we all know that for someone dreaming of their 251st hour, very little can actually disuade them from taking whatever they can get, and even more so in this very difficult economy. But at least they can have their eyes wide open about what has happened to you and your colleagues. If you and your other fired colleagues each spent just 20 minutes a day for a week posting your story around the internet, at least thousands of readers would be aware of how Pacific Wings operates. And honestly, can you and the others honestly say that you had no idea about how disgusting things were and are over there? Did you not notice all the other pilots of Hawaii looking sadly at you as you checked people in during your desk days, or climbed in and out of that filthy ratty caravan day in and out? When they told you who you could speak to and who you couldn't, didn't that ring any bells about the kind and type of operation that you had signed up for?

I know, the dream of island hopping in Hawaii and your (possible) first aviation job was your focus and priority, but really, in addition to wanting to advise you to share your story and do it without fear and with pride, I'd also like to suggest that each of you got exactly what you deserved and no more or less by agreeing, under no coercion or duress, and of your own free wills, to participate and subject yourselves to the nightmarish condition of being a Pathetic Wings employee. You have suffered quietly for weeks, months, and some of you, even years, and by not taking a stand, nor speaking up or out about the injustices you have tolerated, have strengthened and empowered the management at PW to do... just what they did. So along with my gentle empathy and compassion and honest recommendation that you act accordingly to the illeagal, immoral, and outrageous treatment you have been subjected to, for those of you who have been there more than a month or two, I'd like to say "serves you right". What you got vis-a-vis your termination is exactly what you deserve for choosing to remain at such a disgusting company with such abusive policies and customs. So if you want to coward like a frightened child in front of threats coming out of that trailer-park style dirty smelly plywood trailer and clam up in fear of being prosecuted for "slander" and/or "libel", then go ahead and do so. And while the statue of limitations runs out for the legal cause of action you have to pursue a real case, wait and see and look around for who is standing up for you, speaking up for you, defending you, and making your case known. Yes, those are crickets chirping that you can hear. Nobody, absolutely nobody is going to do it for you.

So while I don't honestly expect any of you who have bought into working there for more than a few weeks to really do anything (even kidnapped abuse victims end up developing a sense of compassion for their captors), I say to you: Enjoy this development of being released from PW! Enjoy the freedom of being able to talk to who you want to, about what you want to, when you want to. Other pilots, your colleagues in your profession, are great sources of valuable information, and the ones in Hawaii have been shaking our heads at the news that you risk termination by speaking with us. You're free! Enjoy your freedom! Contemplate what decisions you made that first put you in the situation of working for an abusive company and then released you from it! Organize without fear! Pursue justice without restraint! Accept your own role in becoming tolerant of the abusive culture! Committ to prevent it from happening to the next person! Or don't, and just boldy move ahead with the image of PW in your rearview mirror as I and many many others have done, knowing that ultimately, living well, living free, living happily, and enjoying life is really the best revenge! The air is fresher and the picture brighter almost anywhere other than at Pacific Wings. In a matter of weeks, after you've healed from the abuse and emotional torture, or months, or whenever, as you settle into your next aviation job, you too will agree and be absolutly 100 percent without a doubt sure that your life is so much better off. You'll recall this post. And you'll know why I and others have been smiling to ourselves all this time. It's because, like you are now, we've been freed from PW. And watching those of you who chose to remain quietly captive until being unceremoniously fired come to realize the true nature of those running Pacific Wings is now something you can do while thinking of your friends and collegues 'left behind' still working there. Good luck to you all, and be very grateful and thankful that you are now free, but do tell your story, do pursue justice, and by all means, do whatever you feel you need to do to right the wrongs done to you. If you don't, who will? If you don't now, then when?

name10135

Dear skyDriver:

Thank You for your thoughts. I just want you to know that the reason we are not speaking as vocally as you suggest is not because of fear of retaliation or otherwise.

We understand what you are saying and we share your opinions on just what management does or does not do @ PW, but at this point IN THE GAME our comrades, friends, and well wishers must say what we specifically cannot.

The time will come soon when we are just as vocal as you have been, and if you want more detail, please do not hesitate to contact anyone you do know who has been so horribly treated just now.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Stryker

You are sadly mistaken if you think anything said on an anonymous message board can be used to prosecute for libel or slander. Just come out with it and let the pilot community support you. Talking in abstracts is not even worth the time it took to write your post. If you are being treated unfairly let everyone know so no one makes the same mistake!!

UCLAbruins

name10135, I know exactly how you feel and where you're coming from.

Unfortunately management has the upper hand. Right now nobody is hiring, lots of guys on the street, they know they can find replacements very easily. Once things pick up and the airlines start hiring, then the tide will turn

FastEasy

UCLA I wont deny I agree with your statement that current pilots may have a hard time finding new employment, but at the same time one cannot allow themselves to be treated so poorly. There are laws to protect you and the necessary steps should be taken to insure that those laws are enforced. Like I have stated previously, pilots tend to let themselves be walked on, just in order to pursue the dream of flying an airplane for a living. If pilots would not only discuss these matters on here, but as well take empowering actions to improve our working conditions and pay, then we may again be one of the more respected professions in this country. I support these (10?) pilots and do hope they band together in efforts to right the wrongs that have taken place not only 01-31-2009, but also to all the other poor souls that were taken advantage of by this company over the years. It should be, not pilots taking this job because it is the only one available, but instead pilots refusing to work in that environment and "that" company having to raise there standards to accommodate you. Because, I believe many would agree with me, that to start ones career off doing island hops in the middle of the Pacific sounds pretty exciting, and it should be.

vagabond

First, let me clarify some terminology. The tort of "defamation" is generally a communication of a statement that makes a false claim and may give an individual or business a negative image. "Slander" is making these defamatory statements through spoken words; "Libel" is making them through publication or written word.

Posting on an internet board such as APC is a double-edged sword. There is some degree of anonymity, but it is difficult to tell if any post/information/statement is credible or accurate. In this day and age where people sue one another at a drop of a hat, one must assume that somebody is reading what is posted here. They may or may not do anything with the information. Prudence requires that posters protect themselves by not naming names or going into personal details. It is fine to state an opinion, although some jurisdictions in this country no longer recognize this defense to defamation. APC, on the other hand, will not divulge member information to people who make personal requests. However, APC is legally responsible for obeying a subpoena. The admins and moderators are obligated to protect APC from any legal jeopardy and to that end, any post that is deemed remotely or patently in violation of the Terms of Service will be deleted. It is impossible to read every single post, therefore, all users are asked to report anything amiss.

As I wrote in another thread, personnel issues are very sensitive and some issues are best discussed over PMs. If everything I read here about the company did indeed happen, those terminated likely have a case and if you do not have a good labor attorney, you should probably engage one as soon as possible.

name10135

Thank you for your clarification Vagabond.

You have my word that my posts in this thread will remain factual, and will abide to the TOS.

I agree with your last opinion, and I think you and everyone will be proud of our actions when I can release them without giving management or the former co-workers who exposed us ammunition or information that they don't already know about.

Stryker

Thats all you had to say.... it seemed like you were holding out on us for fear of reprisal from the company, but if you are doing something about it then good for you....