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Operating Costs for Piper Chieftain

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Part 135 Part 135 commercial operators

Operating Costs for Piper Chieftain

Old 03-16-2009, 06:15 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by freightdog View Post
Our runs were usually less than an hour flying time and especially in the socal area, it made no sense to going "balls to the wall" on the power, because by the time you were in cruise, you'd have to start pulling the power back to start stage cooling. As you said, you were getting 50gph and we were getting 18 gph, over a day's worth of flying at 5 days a week, that starts to add up at the end of the year. I think across the system we were saving $10,000/day with the reduces power settings. That's with about 40 PA31's operating.

From what I remember the majority of our Chieftain runs were over an hour out here in the midwest and east coast, some with pretty tight deadlines, so going "balls to the wall" still left plenty of time for stage cooling. When I left Airnet I think we had between 15 - 20 Chieftains, so I think it would be interesting to see what kind of money they could save using similar cost saving methods and if they would still be on time on the runs with tight deadlines.
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:11 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by deadstick35 View Post
per side, right? Didn't you do trend monitoring ,too, for higher TBO's?
Yep, per side. Like I said, though, at 26" and 75 ROP it's more like 14gph when you're at 8 or 9000ft density altitude- the Chieftain will indicate 150 and true out at about 170. Bump it up to 30" and your burn increases to the 18gph, indicated and true increase about 10kts, and time over 200nm is about six minutes more. Blocking out 10 minutes early saves more time than you could ever recover in flight on a medium-length trip.

Yes, we trend-monitor on revenue flights- I don't know of any runs that lack a leg more than 30 minutes. I'm not sure if it's specifically for TBOs, but to keep an eye on stuff to prevent surprises. Theoretically.

Historically, AMF has had very good results with leaning to 75 ROP. Cylinder head temps usually stay under 400, oil temps under 200, so the engine isn't being cooked, and very seldom do the plugs get fouled. I would imagine running higher MPs at 75 ROP might cause problems, though.
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Old 02-16-2016, 03:30 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by TangoBar View Post
Yep, per side. Like I said, though, at 26" and 75 ROP it's more like 14gph when you're at 8 or 9000ft density altitude- the Chieftain will indicate 150 and true out at about 170. Bump it up to 30" and your burn increases to the 18gph, indicated and true increase about 10kts, and time over 200nm is about six minutes more. Blocking out 10 minutes early saves more time than you could ever recover in flight on a medium-length trip.

Yes, we trend-monitor on revenue flights- I don't know of any runs that lack a leg more than 30 minutes. I'm not sure if it's specifically for TBOs, but to keep an eye on stuff to prevent surprises. Theoretically.

Historically, AMF has had very good results with leaning to 75 ROP. Cylinder head temps usually stay under 400, oil temps under 200, so the engine isn't being cooked, and very seldom do the plugs get fouled. I would imagine running higher MPs at 75 ROP might cause problems, though.
The way Cal Air/Ameriflight operated their Navajo's and Chieftains really cut down on pre-mature engine problems. I worked there from 79 to 86. They even had approval to push the TBO's from 1800 tbo to I believe 2200 (2400?) TBO. Most guys at cruise just throttled back and leanded to 18 gph per side on the Chieftain unless Gary was being a jerk that particular week then most of us ran it full-rich :-). I spent 7 years there at AMF and learned more about flying in those 7 years than I've learned the the last 30 flying the big iron for the Majors.
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Old 02-16-2016, 04:31 PM
  #24  
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Dave Hunington would be proud. Class of 88-89.

Originally Posted by krudawg View Post
The way Cal Air/Ameriflight operated their Navajo's and Chieftains really cut down on pre-mature engine problems. I worked there from 79 to 86. They even had approval to push the TBO's from 1800 tbo to I believe 2200 (2400?) TBO. Most guys at cruise just throttled back and leanded to 18 gph per side on the Chieftain unless Gary was being a jerk that particular week then most of us ran it full-rich :-). I spent 7 years there at AMF and learned more about flying in those 7 years than I've learned the the last 30 flying the big iron for the Majors.
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Old 02-17-2016, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jonnyjetprop View Post
Dave Hunington would be proud. Class of 88-89.
I wonder what Dave Huntington is doing these days.....selling hot dogs at Costco perhaps :-) He is, without a doubt, one of the biggest a$$ho###s I ever had the displeasure of working under. He was a decent stick and rudder guy but a horrible human being. What a jerk he was to work under. He created a fiefdom and had all the grace of a bull in a china shop
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by deadstick35 View Post
I think the TBO is 2000 hrs and 2 overhauled engines will run about $92-$95k/pair. You can plan on some cylinders along the way, too. The fuel burn is about 40-45 gph.

Get the BLR vg STC. I think it gives you an additional 368 lb useful load.
Wow Navajos are burning a lot more fuel since I flew them 30 years ago!
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