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-   -   Cape air studies replacement for 402's (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/part-135/39589-cape-air-studies-replacement-402s.html)

HectorD 05-05-2009 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by Planespotta (Post 605984)
Twin star?

its been asked already. Are you referring to the Diamond Twin Star or something else?

If you are referring to the Diamond, the you think this:
http://www.oceanrowing.com/Dom_Mee/plane.jpg


can replace this?
http://www.aircharterbahamas.com/air...2_interior.jpg
http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/TRA1189.jpg

GrummanCT 05-05-2009 08:03 PM

I have a feeling he is thinking of the "aerostar"

HectorD 05-05-2009 08:09 PM


Originally Posted by GrummanCT (Post 606098)
I have a feeling he is thinking of the "aerostar"

as far as I know Aerostars are old and they only have one entry door which is inconveniently the pilot door. They are also fast airplanes and wouldn't fare too well in landing in short rough island runways I would think. Definitely not a 402 replacement by a long shot. :o

Ziggy 05-05-2009 09:35 PM

I'm surprised that they aren't considering turbines. They are more reliable, easier to maintain, and the fuel is cheaper. Also you can use single engine aircraft in 135 ops but it does have its draw backs, especially in low visibility. Look at Linear Air they do, or did (don't know if they're still around) operate Caravans. I would think this would be optimal for Cape Air's operation.

DC2495 05-05-2009 10:15 PM

Hey now, don't knock the Twin Star idea! Cape could completely turn this job shortage around by replacing all the 402's with Twin Stars! Just think of all the pilots they would have to hire! The Aerostar cert is now owned by a company right up the road from where I'm at. The planes are fast all hell (I think they still hold the record for fastest piston twin), but I don't think they would work for a high volume pax load. The pilot door thing...kind of a PITA!

Ewfflyer 05-06-2009 04:26 AM


Originally Posted by Ziggy (Post 606134)
I'm surprised that they aren't considering turbines. They are more reliable, easier to maintain, and the fuel is cheaper. Also you can use single engine aircraft in 135 ops but it does have its draw backs, especially in low visibility. Look at Linear Air they do, or did (don't know if they're still around) operate Caravans. I would think this would be optimal for Cape Air's operation.

The largest disadvantage of the turbine idea is Cape Air is a lot of short-haul trips, and you would just drink boat-loads of fuel on these short, low altitude trips. Also, yes reliability is up, but so are the direct operating costs of a turbine engine.

Now here's a thought, isn't there a company that's resurecting the old Twin-Otter? That wouldn't be too bad of a bird for their southern routes, but don't think it'd handle the north very well in any type of icing conditions with the fixed gear.

Cape Air in the end is looking for a cheap alternative to their soon to be completely worn out fleet. I'm afraid any way you put it, it's going to cost them boatloads of money.

BelowMins 05-06-2009 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by Ewfflyer (Post 606175)
The largest disadvantage of the turbine idea is Cape Air is a lot of short-haul trips, and you would just drink boat-loads of fuel on these short, low altitude trips. Also, yes reliability is up, but so are the direct operating costs of a turbine engine.

Now here's a thought, isn't there a company that's resurecting the old Twin-Otter? That wouldn't be too bad of a bird for their southern routes, but don't think it'd handle the north very well in any type of icing conditions with the fixed gear.

Cape Air in the end is looking for a cheap alternative to their soon to be completely worn out fleet. I'm afraid any way you put it, it's going to cost them boatloads of money.

Directly from the President of Cape Air: He wants Jet-A burning recip engine aircraft similiar to the 402 with a little higher payload.

I recommended the Otter but he didn't seem to like that idea. It's fine in ice the fixed gear isn't an issue.

402Fanatic 05-06-2009 07:55 AM


Originally Posted by BelowMins (Post 606227)
Directly from the President of Cape Air: He wants Jet-A burning recip engine aircraft similiar to the 402 with a little higher payload.

I recommended the Otter but he didn't seem to like that idea. It's fine in ice the fixed gear isn't an issue.

The Otter is also significantly slower than the 402. Might be fine for short hops but some of the longer flights would really add to the block time. And then of course it also is more than a 9 seater so they'd have to transition to all 121 ops.

Ewfflyer 05-06-2009 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by BelowMins (Post 606227)
Directly from the President of Cape Air: He wants Jet-A burning recip engine aircraft similiar to the 402 with a little higher payload.

I recommended the Otter but he didn't seem to like that idea. It's fine in ice the fixed gear isn't an issue.

So they are looking for a turbo-diesel is what you're saying? Highly untested market so far, at least past what Diamond has done with the DA42. I do believe that these engines are the future of GA, just haven't made the leap yet. I also remember seeing something from Rolls-Royce about a smaller Turbo-Prop engine that will take the place of many of the IO/TIO-520/540 250+hp engines out there, with just a slightly higher fuel burn than the pistion varient. I haven't seen them actually put on an aircraft yet, but I'm sure that's just a matter of time.

Honestly, had no idea if the twin-otter was FIKI or not. Still don't know how they are going to get anything near the aquisition cost of the 402 w/o having some huge sacrifices.

402Fanatic 05-06-2009 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by Ewfflyer (Post 606261)
I also remember seeing something from Rolls-Royce about a smaller Turbo-Prop engine that will take the place of many of the IO/TIO-520/540 250+hp engines out there, with just a slightly higher fuel burn than the pistion varient. I haven't seen them actually put on an aircraft yet, but I'm sure that's just a matter of time.

Are these the ones you are talking about?

http://www.vulcanair.com.au/TheA-Via...Sheet2.pdf.pdf

Vulcanair Australia - Our Aircraft

According to this site (when you open the information on the A-Viator on the right), the Vulcanair A-Viator has the same block fuel burn as a Chieftain. If true that would be great. These engines have a 3500 TBO as well which is quite good.


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