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Old 11-27-2009, 09:04 AM   #21  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkerJet View Post
Since I'm stuck on the road today and have nothing better to do I'll bite.

Key Lime Air - Colorado's #1 Air Charter Service

First I don't have the direct experience that you asked for, but you now have two threads going on the topic so you must be serious about doing the SIC program.

About 12 to 15 years ago pay for training was more common, but movement was happening and I can see the argument for it.....maybe.

Today and for the next 5+ years I do not see much happening.

How old are you, how much time do you have? Are you a CFI/CFII/MEI, if not why not?

My opinion only, save your money, get ratings the legitimate way, pay your dues and if you want in this industry bad enough you'll make it in time.

Good luck and Happy T-day
Well said!
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:23 PM   #22  
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First of all hi to everyone here. And lets do this, first of all you have to know what is your final goal. Some pilot like bush flying in 208B and some like to socialais with the pax, and some pilots knew from lesson one in that 172 that one day they want to fly the 777.
So this is the story guys, you go ahead and tell me how you can get to that job before turning 50 yrs old? I am not waiting that long. Wake up and smell the coffee people, look how things are done in Europe, Asia, Australia and around the world. Cadet pilots with 200 TT time right seat in a 747 example Cathy Pacific,Emirates, BA and etc. So you are telling me this fist class airlines don't know what they are doing? And to be considered as an applicant you have to pass hard core exams, I know for fact that in JAP, they have 800 applicants who apply and only 20-35 make it.

Now back to buying hours, Could you please tell me where in the world I will get 500hrs in type? look at all climbto350. Every single airlines wants 300-500 hrs on type. Do you think they care if you have 5000hrs in a King Air or CRJ or what ever you have on your logbook. Its all about time in type buddy, no one cares about your TT.

I will continue to build good time to get where I want even If I have to sell my house, car, gold and clothes. Its all about how much you want this.Its all about money, you don't have to pay your life if you got $$$$$$$.


OK let the FIGHT START ROUND 1

Last edited by taymor1234; 11-27-2009 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:11 PM   #23  
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Default Peer respect?

Employers do not care if you bought your job or if mom or dad got it for you. There are no points for taking the hard road. The current slowdown could take many years to sort out. An entire generation of careers could be lost over that time. It might be acceptable to be a flight instructor for a year or two but when it begins to seem like you will be stuck there forever attitudes will begin to fail. The Home Depot will start to seem like a better deal.

It is up to the individual to make their dreams come true. If it means buying jobs until things get going again then so be it. If you are there with the time when an opportunity opens up and the other guy does not then you will be the one to get the job. The alternative is to sit on the sidelines building useless time getting fatter and older everyday while your dreams pass you by.

Some here have mentioned that your peers may not respect you later. The truth is that they most likely will not be flying anymore by the time things get better anyway. We all have to make our choices. A better question to ask is why do it in the first place? Save your money and go to trade school.

Skyhigh
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Old 11-27-2009, 03:06 PM   #24  
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Plantation,
Before this thread drifts any further, let me sum up the Key Lime experience for you. Key Lime is your typical scumbag 135 operator. It's a dead end business model that makes no money and incurs debt(due to the ever-aging aircraft fleet). The company as a whole is cash poor. They take advantage of people like you because all they see are $'s. Your checks will stave off vendors for another 90 days. In the meantime, you get to serve as a useless crewmember in a single pilot airplane which, by the way, all the Capts. were trained to fly that way. Not to worry though, you'll do your share of humping freight in and out of UPS trucks, in the dark and freezing cold. Fun stuff!

You mentioned a warm reception and friendly voices on the phone. It's all an act, buddy. The Pres. is worthless and has absolutely no business sense. In fact he's a terrible pilot with very dangerous attitudes in regards to getting the freight places on time. Oh, and enough DUI's that he should be in prison. Sweet. The VP is a decent guy but because the Pres. washes his hands of any real responsibility around the place, he holds it all together. His primary job is diciplinarian. Hopefully you don't ever end up in his office. The D.O. is a pompus ass with an ego problem who likes to bully pilots and throw his weight around, literally(he's a big boy). I don't know what poor sucker is the Chief these days. Just remember that safety isn't always their primary concern, pleasing UPS is.

The airplanes are for the most part in decent shape, at least they used to be. Maintenance is also pretty good, when it's convienent to them. A broken airplane is no excuse for late freight.

When I was there the pilot group was pretty awesome. We all knew the job and how to do it safely. I built some quality hours in the Metro that have served my career well and shaped my style of flying. I miss that airplane. Just remember who you're dealing with and always C.Y.A.!!! Safety should always be your #1 priority.

With the state of the industry I won't judge your decision to go there, but keep these things in mind. Any job you land after this one will seem so easy and more enjoyable. But while you're there, have fun with it. Feel free to pm me with any questions.
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:07 PM   #25  
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Here's an easy way to think about what you're thinking of doing... You are going to be paying the pilots wage, plus at least twice the cost of your weight as cargo on the plane to be sitting in that seat.

Key lime then doesn't have to worry about paying that pilots hourly wage for those flights and they get to make some more money for doing nothing...

Having you in that seat is pointless and just hurting this industry even more. If anything there should be someone getting paid to be in that seat. Not having the person in the right seat paying the left seat guys wage and more.
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Old 11-28-2009, 08:24 AM   #26  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WmuGrad07 View Post
Here's an easy way to think about what you're thinking of doing... You are going to be paying the pilots wage, plus at least twice the cost of your weight as cargo on the plane to be sitting in that seat.

Key lime then doesn't have to worry about paying that pilots hourly wage for those flights and they get to make some more money for doing nothing...

Having you in that seat is pointless and just hurting this industry even more. If anything there should be someone getting paid to be in that seat. Not having the person in the right seat paying the left seat guys wage and more.
In some countries pilots are hired with zero flight time and are paid while gaining their initial certifications. Prior to getting hired with SWA pilots have to buy a type rating. Training contracts were common at regional airlines and are due to come back. Essentially pilots paid for their own training.

Exactly where should we as pilots draw the line? Why is it acceptable to pay for your own type rating to get a job but not for initial line experience?

Skyhigh
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:45 AM   #27  
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Why is it acceptable to pay for your own type rating to get a job but not for initial line experience?

Skyhigh
I think it's because you are paying to get qualifications vs paying to do a job. It's is never okay to pay your employer so he can make even more money.
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:49 AM   #28  
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Default Paying is bad but this is life.

I am not justifying paying, but this is not 2007 any more. This is worst then 911, if you could remember we recover from 911 after 6 month.
Guys we are in a very very bad situation right now and the marked will change, but takes about 2 more years. Do you think a person who paid $ 50 000 to get his rating cares about paying $5000 more to land a job?
I know paying is bad but what other options do you have? and don't say a word about CFI please. When you have over 500 hrs JET time its not cool to go backwards and fly 172 in a hot summer. And there is no CFI job out there at all.

Do you guys seriously think Pilots like to pay money to get the job?
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:56 PM   #29  
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Default Glad I'm Gone

This thread reminds me how smart I was to leave this industry and go back to work for myself.
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:12 PM   #30  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taymor1234 View Post
I am not justifying paying, but this is not 2007 any more. This is worst then 911, if you could remember we recover from 911 after 6 month.
Guys we are in a very very bad situation right now and the marked will change, but takes about 2 more years. Do you think a person who paid $ 50 000 to get his rating cares about paying $5000 more to land a job?
I know paying is bad but what other options do you have? and don't say a word about CFI please. When you have over 500 hrs JET time its not cool to go backwards and fly 172 in a hot summer. And there is no CFI job out there at all.

Do you guys seriously think Pilots like to pay money to get the job?


Do you have 500 hours of jet time? I have a few thousand, some of it PIC at a 121. I also spent some time at a LCC not just the regionals. I had to go back to being a CFI to have a job and I did it happily, until I found another job. No one should ever think they are "better" than a job, espically when times are like this. So don't say its not cool to do something. Just imagine instead of your students paying you, you pay them for the privilege of teaching them what you had to pay to learn.

Either way I think this is a moot point. The OP had made up his or her mind about doing this, they just wanted to know about the place before they got there. So I wish the best of luck to them and maybe next time they will find a MEI to split time with to get some multi. It would be alot cheaper and he or she could keep the current job.
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