Starbucks

"in writing"? I don't think it has to be. I may be overlooking it, but I don't see that written anywhere.

ThomasMagnum

I don't understand pilots desire to support the notion that rolling rest is acceptable. It has been determined by the FAA's counsel that this example is not in compliance.

Jetlife

Well, at what point is it rolling rest, or is it predetermined? If you just get 14/10, 14/10, 14/10, 14/10, that is technically rolling rest. Is that how TMC operates? The letter isn't gonna prevent you guys from being assigned rest in completely unrealistic hours, in order to fly on the back side of the clock. Also, there is nothing illegal about scheduling a 14 hour duty day, scheduling your rest for 10 hours following the rest, then scheduling your duty to start after. It is all predetermined ahead of time.

You cannot keep somebody on rest, then immediately take them off rest and put them on duty, it has to be predetermined. I was not aware that TMC kept you on rest until you have a flight, then put you on duty. Of course that is 100% illegal, and again, has been addressed in several other letters of interpretations. That basically constitutes 24/7 on call.

Jetlife

Well, after 10 hours that would end your rest period then. So in theory, you can have 10 hours of rest, then have nothing on the books for you for another 10 hours, but they expect you to answer your phone for the 10 hours after your required rest? Da fuq...

twebb

If they want you to answer a call in case you can do an earlier flight, then you are on duty and not rest. They can notify you of trips while on rest, and you can respond, but that rest time has to be predetermined.

They can also put you on 24/7 rest, but you cant take any flights for 10 hours after they notify you. No pop up trips within 10 hours.

They could also end your scheduled duty early mid day, put you on 10 hour rest and have you fly at midnight. Legal, but it is up to you to decline that and say it is not smart.

I think Argus and Wyvern need to take an active roll in this. 135 operators must submit available duty times 10 hours prior to being duty on, or notify they only accept trips with minimum 10 hours notice. If an operator does not send in rest and duty times daily, they will not be called for a flight.

twebb

Roll vs role. I'll grammar police myself.

ThomasMagnum

[QUOTE=Jetlife;1994898]

You cannot keep somebody on rest, then immediately take them off rest and put them on duty, it has to be predetermined. I was not aware that TMC kept you on rest until you have a flight, then put you on duty. Of course that is 100% illegal, and again, has been addressed in several other letters of interpretations. That basically constitutes 24/7 on call.[/QUOTE

Hasn't that kinda been the whole point?

Jetlife

Yea I'm on board. I was just agreeing. I didn't realize they specifically kept you on rest. I thought they started your duty day after 10 hours. My company sends me a proposed off message, an off message with my rest period, then the start of my next duty period. I thought that's how a place like TMC would do it given their size.

fordprefect

The Masterson Interpretation is clear. If you are required to answer your phone, it is absolutely NOT rest. Once you are on call, the duty clock effectively starts. If they want to schedule you for duty at a later time, they must inform you of the expected duty on time at least 10 hours prior to meet the requirements of 135.267 for 10 hours of rest in a 24 hour look back because rest “must be...prospective, ie. known in advance”. How in the hell are these guys still getting away with this?

fordprefect

If it’s not in writing it is your word against theirs. If it is not required, that is how Travel Management is pulling the wool over the Feds eyes.