KA350Driver

I’ve been flying ISR in Africa for going on 4 years.

StandardBrief

Are you with CAT?

KA350Driver

Yup. I’m pretty happy hear. You take the good with the bad of course wherever you go. I know L3 and a few others pay a little more but QOL while downrange is worth it to me.

Donkey22

Does CAT offer part time employment?

KA350Driver

There are some part time guys but I think they want at least a year full time before they switch you to part time. At least that’s what I’ve seen in the past.

Air Pirate

How do ISR companies look at PIC time? Does sole manipulator count or just the one who signs for the jet?

Clue32

Your log book is your log book, you own the entries and attest to the truthfulness and accuracy. This post probably won't answer your question but here goes.

Some people seem to be logging what they need. SIC hires who are short on PIC hours for a PIC upgrade might be logging PIC time when they are sitting left seat as Pilot Flying, even though the only qualified and assigned PIC serving as PNF is also logging PIC hours.

PICs flying with other PICs generally are scheduled for about half their missions as PIC and half SIC; the PIC then usually serves as PF, so it typically just works out. If I am signing for the airplane as the mission PIC but sitting right seat, I log PIC time if I am right seat PNF.

Finally, this question gets asked all the time, all over the APC boards. Right or wrong, I always take the stance of 1. Military King Airs are all certified as requiring two pilots by the regulatory authority (USAF or USA) and all actions are conducted as a multi crew so, in my conservative view, there is never a sole manipulator of the flight controls. 2. The scheduled PIC is the ultimate authority of the flight; their tail is on the line if there is an incident so they should be the only one who logs PIC hours. 3. If someone were to produce flight records from the contract company in the future for any reason, I'd sure want their personal logs to jive with the company records.

Let the FAR 61 arguments commence, but remember these ops are under DCMA 8210 and AR 95-1 or the stacks of AFI volumes.

Air Pirate

Understood. Perhaps I should clarify. I currently operate under Part 121 so my logbook entries are currently controlled by the morass that is Part 61. Thus I know that I am legally able to log PIC as a sole manipulator. My question is really, how do most ISR employers view this method of logging PIC as it relates to their applicants?

Thanks.

StandardBrief

When I was hired by L3 a few years ago they told me to calculate my time per part 61. FO time as pilot on the controls now becomes PIC time. Military time as a SIC but on the controls is now PIC. The reason is that after you are hired by any of these companies, you must fill out an experience form for the GFR. Since we have pilots from all walks of life from the Army, AF, Navy, Marines, whatever, all of which log time differently, they want the FAA regs. That's what I was told then. Maybe it has changed since. I also do not want to start a logbook time war on APC. So before the logbook police go on a "that's not what the MAJORS want!," remember, not everyone is going to a major airline and YES, according to the FAA, time as an FO in 121 operations can be logged as PIC while on the controls. There is even a legal interpretation letter about it.

gollum

Pretty sure he was asking about how the ISR companies look at PIC time from a hiring prospective, not what goes on after you are hired.

Answer: just about anyone BUT the airlines expect your time to be logged in accordance with part 61 and any and all PIC/SIC allowances granted under such part to include sole manipulator and safety pilot.

I do disagree with your “there is never a sole manipulator of the Controls because it’s a crew airplane” as the there should NEVER be more than one person physically moving the primary flight controls either via the yoke/stick or the Autopilot via flight guidance panel. It should alway be clearly stated who has the flight controls. If the PIC is the PM and the SIC is the PF, then the SIC in fact (and should be) the only one manipulating the primary flight control surfaces. If the PIC (who, yes is the ultimate authority) needs to over ride what the SIC is doing they should do it via verbal command or physically assume the flight controls of the aircraft. Too many accidents are the direct result of two people trying to fly the same plane at the same time.