Logging 135 PIC
10-10-2012, 11:34 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Chair Flying
Posts: 257
Logging 135 PIC
I just recently got a PIC type on airplane but don't have 135 mins. I'm currently flying right seat to get to the mins. I was under the impression I can log the 91 as pic but not the 135 since I don't have the mins. I was just told I can log both regardless I just can't act in the capacity of pic...can anyone clarify this ? Thank you.
10-10-2012, 12:18 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 156
Do a search, you'll probably find 50 threads related to this. If you want to keep life simple, if you are not checked out as a PIC don't log it PIC, that's what the SIC column in your logbook is for. I promise in the end you'll have more PIC/TPIC than you'll know what to do with. A few hours at this point while your working toward 135 PIC mins isn't going to matter one bit...
I've always done it that way, and have never had to explain anything in an interview, which is the only time that what you put in that book really matters...
My .02...
I know someone is going to talk about legal/acting/whatever... If you aren't the acting PIC, why would you want to log it as PIC... You're just going to end up making a mess in your logbook out of what is a very simple issue. Look at SIC as a good thing. It show's you can work in a crew environment...
I've always done it that way, and have never had to explain anything in an interview, which is the only time that what you put in that book really matters...
My .02...
I know someone is going to talk about legal/acting/whatever... If you aren't the acting PIC, why would you want to log it as PIC... You're just going to end up making a mess in your logbook out of what is a very simple issue. Look at SIC as a good thing. It show's you can work in a crew environment...
Last edited by propilot; 10-10-2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason: .....
10-10-2012, 06:09 PM
#3
Sitting on the sidelines
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 436
If you have a Part 135 SIC checkride, you can theoretically log PIC time for the legs when you are the sole manipulator of the controls. I did that when I was yuonger, show it separate from "real" PIC time on applications, and have never had a problem. (They probably don't count it!)
If you don't have an SIC checkride, you can't legally log anything for Part 135 legs.
If you don't have an SIC checkride, you can't legally log anything for Part 135 legs.
10-16-2012, 04:47 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: F/O- G-V/550
Posts: 1,163
Originally Posted by freightdog
Until you are a true PIC (i.e. Sign for the Logbook) and a PIC check, keep logging the SIC.
Majors, cargo companies and flight departments don't care about what the FARs say, for hiring purposes PIC means who was in charge, and that's all there is to it
10-17-2012, 03:51 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 826
As you can see, there are two answers to your question depending on the purpose of your logging.
From the FAA's standpoint, if you have the applicable aircraft ratings, you may log PIC any time you are sole manipulator of the controls. 61.51 doesn't care about whether it's a 91, 135 or 121 operation.
If you're "logging for the airlines" the answer may be different.
From the FAA's standpoint, if you have the applicable aircraft ratings, you may log PIC any time you are sole manipulator of the controls. 61.51 doesn't care about whether it's a 91, 135 or 121 operation.
If you're "logging for the airlines" the answer may be different.
10-19-2012, 09:17 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: 75/76 FO
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by Navajo31
If you have a Part 135 SIC checkride, you can theoretically log PIC time for the legs when you are the sole manipulator of the controls. I did that when I was yuonger, show it separate from "real" PIC time on applications, and have never had a problem. (They probably don't count it!)
If you don't have an SIC checkride, you can't legally log anything for Part 135 legs.
If you don't have an SIC checkride, you can't legally log anything for Part 135 legs.
If you are not the true decision maker on the aircraft, you are the SIC. I don't care what you get out of the FAR's - sole manipulator or not. If you're flying and the **** hits the fan, your captain will be in control and his decision is final... That does not qualify you as PIC in my book.
If you interview with somebody and you say you have 500 hours PIC, and They call your employer and he/she says you are the SIC... you're not getting the job and you just wasted everybody's time.
Also, you can't serve as PIC unless you do a line check anyhow. (135.299). No SIC gets a line check as a PIC, at least not at any company I've been at.
KISS - keep it simple stupid. (For the record- that's just a saying, I'm not really calling you stupid).
Best of luck!
10-19-2012, 12:39 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Cap'n
Posts: 687
Originally Posted by UCLAbruins
True that
Majors, cargo companies and flight departments don't care about what the FARs say, for hiring purposes PIC means who was in charge, and that's all there is to it
Majors, cargo companies and flight departments don't care about what the FARs say, for hiring purposes PIC means who was in charge, and that's all there is to it
Dont "log" PIC if you are not signed for the aircraft and /or listed at the PIC. Sole manipulator "PIC ---61.51) is not considered PIC time for any airline job.
PIC time = Captain time. The rest is SIC time.
10-19-2012, 12:56 PM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 77
Don't forget that you will stick out at 500TT when under 135 you can't act as PIC under IFR until you have 1200. That will raise a red flag at your interview and they will definitely look into it further. Every 135 load manifest is required to identify crew position per 135.63. If you are not PIC on the load manifest you are not PIC as far as your current employer is concerned or more than likely any future employer. Don't complicate you log book with the sole manipulator time as opposed to PIC time. As stated they probably won't count it and may frown upon it.
10-19-2012, 03:02 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by cantwin
"real PIC" ... come on man... What is he going to say on an interview: "well, over here is real PIC, and over here is my fake PIC."
If you are not the true decision maker on the aircraft, you are the SIC. I don't care what you get out of the FAR's - sole manipulator or not. If you're flying and the **** hits the fan, your captain will be in control and his decision is final... That does not qualify you as PIC in my book.
If you interview with somebody and you say you have 500 hours PIC, and They call your employer and he/she says you are the SIC... you're not getting the job and you just wasted everybody's time.
Also, you can't serve as PIC unless you do a line check anyhow. (135.299). No SIC gets a line check as a PIC, at least not at any company I've been at.
KISS - keep it simple stupid. (For the record- that's just a saying, I'm not really calling you stupid).
Best of luck!
If you are not the true decision maker on the aircraft, you are the SIC. I don't care what you get out of the FAR's - sole manipulator or not. If you're flying and the **** hits the fan, your captain will be in control and his decision is final... That does not qualify you as PIC in my book.
If you interview with somebody and you say you have 500 hours PIC, and They call your employer and he/she says you are the SIC... you're not getting the job and you just wasted everybody's time.
Also, you can't serve as PIC unless you do a line check anyhow. (135.299). No SIC gets a line check as a PIC, at least not at any company I've been at.
KISS - keep it simple stupid. (For the record- that's just a saying, I'm not really calling you stupid).
Best of luck!
Also, you can't serve as PIC unless you do a line check anyhow. (135.299). No SIC gets a line check as a PIC, at least not at any company I've been at.
NGDI nailed the difference between regulations and hiring requirements. It is that simple. Now let's all just wait for the next thread to start and ask the same question in less than a week
USMCFLYR
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
