Boeing Aviator

I’m as strong a union pilot as the next. The answer is it’s all about a seniority number. The difference at my airline between when I got hired and 10 months later over the last 32 years was huge in terms of pay and quality of life. My career as a whole has been significantly better then the guy hired 10 months after me.

If your goal is a legacy (AA, DAL, UAL, SWA or Fedex & UPS - top tier pilot jobs) its a race to get there as soon as you can.

So to answer you question. If flying at Southern gets you to a Regional significantly faster then flight instructing or other 135 flying jobs, then that in turn gets you too a top level flying job faster, that’s saving you (or portentously costing) you big bucks!

Plus what if you save yourself several years getting to a top level flying job. Let’s say you miss a hiring waive and have to wait several years for your next opportunity. That’s going to cost you big bucks.

First year pay at most top tier companies 70 to
90K. Second year over 100K to 150K. Five year Widebody FO’s or junior Narrow body Captains way over 200K. Top pay 300K to 450K. It’s a race to the big leagues and seniority is everything. You want to get their the fastest and need to build time in a hurry best bet is Southern. My humble opinion anyway.

peaches

I understand chasing pay ( I use to be like that but now solely a QOL guy) but when people accept that bad of pay its just giving companies more power to keep the wages low. I knew of a few 500~ hour jobs that paid 75-100k starting in relatively low cost areas to live. Now that is rare, but the local bottom feeder paying gigs were always advertising for pilots but couldn't get anyone in the door due to people holding out for the next open position at a higher paying place. Ive also worked somewhere near a few pilot mill schools where guys were getting paid 25-30k to fly citations, challengers, and a gulfstream. They knew they had a steady stream of people willing to be paid low ( or even pay) to sit in that right seat. (side note even the captain pay was insultingly low.)

We have seen in the past that refusing low pay will better our industry. The airlines use to pay nothing, so people went to the 135 side. Then the airlines started paying better, people started moving back over to 121 carriers so 135 guys started to raise their pay. And the cycle should continue as such. With the new PSA payscale coming out I believe that other regionals will follow suit (if they havent already) that will force all companies to either match or raise their pay or risk losing their employees.

The first thing I tell my old flight students when they text me asking about jobs is "Your aviation education and experience is valuable. Know your worth."

itsmytime

I’m right there with you. I understand it’s hard to turn down a turbine flying job, but in this market, no one should be flying passengers at those wages.

And the double kicker is the training contract. If you’re going to pay me 2007 wages, I better be able to walk whenever I want, and owe nothing.

Moonlight

I did speak to Julie and what a sweet lady, I would love to meet her in person one day! I told her I have decided to finish/work as a CFI and would call her once closer to captain minimums. Mentoring FOs would be a dream come true! However, I didn't think to ask her what type of questions she would ask during the interview.

Moonlight

Being a CFI is a tremendous responsibility. After having a few close calls (think collisions) inflight, I think I am slowly realizing what else this might mean. Pilots that suddenly show up in a uncontrolled traffic pattern without making a radio call 10 miles out, probably had never been taught differently by their CFI. E.g. twice in the last three month at different fields, I was practicing right seat, short field landings making announcements via radio, cw, dw, base, on short final, suddenly out of the blue, a pilot announced he was on a half mile final ILS approach, heading directly toward me from the opposite end of the runway. I ask him his intentions and got no response. Maneuvering at low altitudes (in a landing configuration) to get away from a approaching aircraft is no fun!
Again, it comes back to the CFI's responsibility to be a good example and to NOT produce pilots that are a threat to Safety. I am sure the ATC staff would agree.
CFI, responsibility.....
Ding ding ding.. I think I see the light!

The color of the pilots hair has no impact in good decision making, black, gray, blonde, red, white...

Unfortunately, I was not able to see the difference till I met a great CFIl....

meitnerium

If I ever hear the "Anyone in the traffic pattern?" I want to just tell them to read AC-90-66B but for a multitude of reasons I respond with my position.

I've only been instructing for 50 hours but it is definitely a high responsibility. A Sentry comes in handy...

Boeing Aviator

Everyone has to make their own decisions and a career in this industry has and always will been a crapshoot.

Let me tell you about a good friend of mine. I met him in the mid 90’s when he was a CFI going through a career change in his late 30’s. Back then that was like someone today switching to aviation on their mid 50’s.

In the 90’s most regionals had pay for training. You had to pay $10,000 (mid 90’s dollars) for your initial training at Flight Safety for an FO position at a regional. After that you had to suffer through pathetic new hire pay. $12,000 a year comes to mind.

My friend saw most of his fellow instructors go to Continental Express with pay for training. Continental Express had a true flow through to Continental at the time. My friend refused to go to any regional that had pay for training on principle.

He ended up going the 135 route flying King Airs
and worked his way to CA and then to Chief Pilot. He stayed there for several years and had me walk in his paperwork to Continental at around the same time his former CFI buddies were flowing up to Continental.

I was told by the head of Hiring at Continental in the late 90’s, my friend needed 121 time and they wouldn’t look at him seriously until he had some. I argued he had several thousand hours turbo prop PIC and was a Chief Pilot. That landed on deaf ears.

Based on that my friend left his cushy corporate job for American Eagle, one of only two or so regionals at the time that didn’t have pay for training. They were a sought after Regional (because of No PFT) and hired much higher time pilots. Most had several thousand hours and at least a few hundred to 500 multi on average. They also averaged an 8 year upgrade vs. a year or two at all PFT regionals. Other Regionals with PFT we’re hiring 1000 to 1500 hour pilots.

My friend stayed through 9/11 then left for North American a former 757/757 charter airline. He stayed there until 2005 when I helped him get on with Continental.

All his friends who went to Continental Express in the late 90’s through pay for training (my friend could had easily gone to COEX when all his friends did) and were at least 1000 to 1500 numbers ahead of him on the seniority list and never furloughed after 9/11. After the merger of United and Continental that seniority difference became several thousand numbers.

Today he is a bottom reserve CA on the 737 in Houston. All his friends that did PFT are mid level 737/A320 Or lower tier 757/767 CA’s. His career is significantly worse because of the path he chose based on principal and its cost him at least half a million to a million in career earnings and most importantly significantly less quality of life.

At an airline seniority is everything and get there as fast as you can. In this business you never know when the music will stop. When it does you hope your at a good place career wise.

To each his/her own and good luck to all. If it was me and the pilots I train and mentor. I tell them to go to Southern and get the time and move on ASAP. Flying a 100 hours a month You’ll be a far better trained pilot and very much ready for the transition to the regionals vs as being a CFI.

Moonlight

SAE is paying the FO 12.00 per hr for the first six month block then 18.00.
Does anyone know if the contract is in place before ground training? FOs do get assigned a domicile after ground training as I understand it.
Do FOs usually move to assigned domiciles or do they commute?
It is kind of overwhelming when one considers FO pay, signing contract, plus not knowing if you will be assigned to the Gulf Region or Mid Atlantic Region till after ground training.
Judy did say she is reasonably sure one can get assigned to the region desired but no guarantees.

Boeing Aviator

I’ll ask your questions to one of the pilots I mentor who works there. Off the top of my head. Contract starts after Sim training, Flight Safety in a Wichita (for initial) Fly Right in NC for CA upgrade.

Domicile assigned after training. It’s by a bid. You can switch bases as openings occur. Most pilots have a crash pad or rent a room. Long 12 hour days and usually 4 on 4 off or 4 on 3 off. Most pilots commute.

Most pilots get Mid Atlantic but some do get other areas.

Moonlight

Thank you for your help, it is appreciated.