Rest interpetation
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 70
Okay I have a question. Im pretty new to commercial flying outside of instructing.
I have read the LOI and the op's article. I understand it perfectly. I have been observing that most on demand ops (it seems) do not comply with this reg. So if there has been numerous LOI's addressing this, why isn't it being fixed?
I have learned that OPSPECS supercede regs. Is this wrong? Is nothing being done about this because POI's have approved OPSPECS to allow it?
I have read the LOI and the op's article. I understand it perfectly. I have been observing that most on demand ops (it seems) do not comply with this reg. So if there has been numerous LOI's addressing this, why isn't it being fixed?
I have learned that OPSPECS supercede regs. Is this wrong? Is nothing being done about this because POI's have approved OPSPECS to allow it?
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Any
Posts: 656
Okay I have a question. Im pretty new to commercial flying outside of instructing.
I have read the LOI and the op's article. I understand it perfectly. I have been observing that most on demand ops (it seems) do not comply with this reg. So if there has been numerous LOI's addressing this, why isn't it being fixed?
I have learned that OPSPECS supercede regs. Is this wrong? Is nothing being done about this because POI's have approved OPSPECS to allow it?
I have read the LOI and the op's article. I understand it perfectly. I have been observing that most on demand ops (it seems) do not comply with this reg. So if there has been numerous LOI's addressing this, why isn't it being fixed?
I have learned that OPSPECS supercede regs. Is this wrong? Is nothing being done about this because POI's have approved OPSPECS to allow it?
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 453
Okay I have a question. Im pretty new to commercial flying outside of instructing.
I have read the LOI and the op's article. I understand it perfectly. I have been observing that most on demand ops (it seems) do not comply with this reg. So if there has been numerous LOI's addressing this, why isn't it being fixed?
I have learned that OPSPECS supercede regs. Is this wrong? Is nothing being done about this because POI's have approved OPSPECS to allow it?
I have read the LOI and the op's article. I understand it perfectly. I have been observing that most on demand ops (it seems) do not comply with this reg. So if there has been numerous LOI's addressing this, why isn't it being fixed?
I have learned that OPSPECS supercede regs. Is this wrong? Is nothing being done about this because POI's have approved OPSPECS to allow it?
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: Phenom
Posts: 82
Honestly, this horse has been beaten to glue long ago but here goes...
POIs have never been able to approve a change to rest rules and the FAA would never allow it. POIs do regularly allow the operators under their purview to do as they please with regards to 136.267 (amongst many other things) as long as they aren't having incidents. The operator believes that this is their loophole to operate how they want and will tell you that they aren't going to get violated because that violation has to be handed down from the POI. The FAA has stated many, many times in their opinions that the POIs have no legal authority to do this. The operators will also tell you that the LOIs from FAA Legal are just suggestions and they don't have to follow them.
IMO, 135 has some decent protections as far as rest rules yet operators still trample then and attempt to skirt the regs in obvious illegal ways. They cook the books to show that their pilots have had adequate rest and threaten to fire you when cry uncle from being too tired to fly. Fixed wing Air Ambulance operators are particularly guilty of this. You'll have 10-12 hrs off then get a call as you're going to bed to fly all night and do a full 14 hr duty day blocking just under the legal 10 hrs of flying where then they'll ask you to Part 91 the jet home another 2 hrs because they need it 3 hrs from now to fly another patient.
Things have gotten a lot better at the company I just left and they've taken great strides to be more in line with 135.267 and also realizing that 10 hrs may be legal but not necessarily smart. The other company down the street is the other side of the coin. They don't seem to care, regularly ask their pilots to exceed duty day, and also have them do ALL aspects of flight planning and customs clearance within their rest period. Their POI allows this to happen and pilots put up with it because of the money. Two different companies and two different POIs within the same FSDO. Moral of the story is that nothing is going to change until people start walking, calling their employer on being truly legal, or reporting their POI to the FAA as the letters have requested multiple times. It's really turning to be a pilot's market so don't let yourself be subject to these sorts of ops unless it's a matter of feeding your family.
POIs have never been able to approve a change to rest rules and the FAA would never allow it. POIs do regularly allow the operators under their purview to do as they please with regards to 136.267 (amongst many other things) as long as they aren't having incidents. The operator believes that this is their loophole to operate how they want and will tell you that they aren't going to get violated because that violation has to be handed down from the POI. The FAA has stated many, many times in their opinions that the POIs have no legal authority to do this. The operators will also tell you that the LOIs from FAA Legal are just suggestions and they don't have to follow them.
IMO, 135 has some decent protections as far as rest rules yet operators still trample then and attempt to skirt the regs in obvious illegal ways. They cook the books to show that their pilots have had adequate rest and threaten to fire you when cry uncle from being too tired to fly. Fixed wing Air Ambulance operators are particularly guilty of this. You'll have 10-12 hrs off then get a call as you're going to bed to fly all night and do a full 14 hr duty day blocking just under the legal 10 hrs of flying where then they'll ask you to Part 91 the jet home another 2 hrs because they need it 3 hrs from now to fly another patient.
Things have gotten a lot better at the company I just left and they've taken great strides to be more in line with 135.267 and also realizing that 10 hrs may be legal but not necessarily smart. The other company down the street is the other side of the coin. They don't seem to care, regularly ask their pilots to exceed duty day, and also have them do ALL aspects of flight planning and customs clearance within their rest period. Their POI allows this to happen and pilots put up with it because of the money. Two different companies and two different POIs within the same FSDO. Moral of the story is that nothing is going to change until people start walking, calling their employer on being truly legal, or reporting their POI to the FAA as the letters have requested multiple times. It's really turning to be a pilot's market so don't let yourself be subject to these sorts of ops unless it's a matter of feeding your family.
#9
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 13
South Florida 135 = Run Away
South Florida 135 operators are one of the most often in violation of 135.267
POIs do not pursue operators to bring them to compliance with 135.267
Crews "resting" in between trip assignments are actually "on call" yet they themselves are their own worst enemies not telling their respective operators NO - Cannot accept this flight assignment as it violates the Rest Requirements / Rules.
Until enough Pilots say NO and until the Local / Regional level of FAA brings operators into compliance with continuous free from all restraints Prospective Rest (Known in Advance) this issue will linger on like Cancer that refuses to go away..
POIs do not pursue operators to bring them to compliance with 135.267
Crews "resting" in between trip assignments are actually "on call" yet they themselves are their own worst enemies not telling their respective operators NO - Cannot accept this flight assignment as it violates the Rest Requirements / Rules.
Until enough Pilots say NO and until the Local / Regional level of FAA brings operators into compliance with continuous free from all restraints Prospective Rest (Known in Advance) this issue will linger on like Cancer that refuses to go away..
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