King Air 350 Right Seat Question
04-25-2017, 10:37 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 12
King Air 350 Right Seat Question
Hi Guys,
I have recently been awarded the opportunity to fly right seat in a Part 91 operated King Air 350. I am a CMEL/instrument rated. The Captain is Single Pilot typed in the King Air. (So i cannot log the time)
However insurance requires an SIC.
That being stated, should I keep track of my time flown as SIC and put on the resume for future jobs, or what is the most professional way to represent this time to future employers?
Thanks.
I have recently been awarded the opportunity to fly right seat in a Part 91 operated King Air 350. I am a CMEL/instrument rated. The Captain is Single Pilot typed in the King Air. (So i cannot log the time)
However insurance requires an SIC.
That being stated, should I keep track of my time flown as SIC and put on the resume for future jobs, or what is the most professional way to represent this time to future employers?
Thanks.
04-25-2017, 10:50 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by braves1993
Hi Guys,
I have recently been awarded the opportunity to fly right seat in a Part 91 operated King Air 350. I am a CMEL/instrument rated. The Captain is Single Pilot typed in the King Air. (So i cannot log the time)
However insurance requires an SIC.
That being stated, should I keep track of my time flown as SIC and put on the resume for future jobs, or what is the most professional way to represent this time to future employers?
Thanks.
I have recently been awarded the opportunity to fly right seat in a Part 91 operated King Air 350. I am a CMEL/instrument rated. The Captain is Single Pilot typed in the King Air. (So i cannot log the time)
However insurance requires an SIC.
That being stated, should I keep track of my time flown as SIC and put on the resume for future jobs, or what is the most professional way to represent this time to future employers?
Thanks.
04-25-2017, 10:58 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 182
braves1993,
I would only log the time where you are "sole manipulator of the controls". I would not create a new column in your logbook called "King Air 350 Observer" or something like that. I am not sure if you can log this time as PIC if you do not have a type-rating. Do you or will you have a type-rating?
I would only log the time where you are "sole manipulator of the controls". I would not create a new column in your logbook called "King Air 350 Observer" or something like that. I am not sure if you can log this time as PIC if you do not have a type-rating. Do you or will you have a type-rating?
04-25-2017, 11:06 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 139
I flew co-pilot of a Citation Mustang and CJ4. The owner was single pilot typed. We went though and did all the training for me to get my SIC type in the plane and we flew the plane as a crew. Talked to FAA about it, they said that as long as I was trained on the plane that I could log the time. The single pilot typed person does not have to act on the single pilot qualification if he or she doesn't wish to for that flight.
04-25-2017, 11:14 AM
#5
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,082
350 requires a type rating correct?
In which case you can't (legaly) log anything unless you have at least a SIC type. Will you be paid? The insurance company requires so are they looking for a bright eyed bushy tailed free pilot? What SIC training does the insurance company require?
Did they mention anything about sending you to training?
Be careful that you don't end up being the free luggage loader and airplane washer and refueler while they do 'you a favor'.
Something doesn't fit here.
The Captain is SE qualified in the airplane but the insurance company requires a SIC. Anything can be insured, even a private pilot in a 707 so it's a matter of how much premium they're willing to pay.
But I digress.
To answer your question.
Keep a written record as far as dates, tail number and if you had any stick turn or not. It's still experience even though it's not 'loggable'.
You'll impress any recruiter by knowing when you can or cannot log the time.
You could even buy a separate (cheap) PPL style logbook and have the Captain sign the flights.
Double bookkeeping if you will but don't use the hours for a certificate or rating. Just extra experience.
Clear as mud?
In which case you can't (legaly) log anything unless you have at least a SIC type. Will you be paid? The insurance company requires so are they looking for a bright eyed bushy tailed free pilot? What SIC training does the insurance company require?
Did they mention anything about sending you to training?
Be careful that you don't end up being the free luggage loader and airplane washer and refueler while they do 'you a favor'.
Something doesn't fit here.
The Captain is SE qualified in the airplane but the insurance company requires a SIC. Anything can be insured, even a private pilot in a 707 so it's a matter of how much premium they're willing to pay.
But I digress.
To answer your question.
Keep a written record as far as dates, tail number and if you had any stick turn or not. It's still experience even though it's not 'loggable'.
You'll impress any recruiter by knowing when you can or cannot log the time.
You could even buy a separate (cheap) PPL style logbook and have the Captain sign the flights.
Double bookkeeping if you will but don't use the hours for a certificate or rating. Just extra experience.
Clear as mud?
04-25-2017, 06:25 PM
#7
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,008
So far as logging goes, what the insurance company requires is irrelevant.
So far as getting information regarding the regulation, you understand that talking to the local FSDO will not provide you any legitimate interpretation of the regulation, and there will never be a time when you can defend your actions on the basis of information obtained from the FSDO.
Regulatory interpretation is reserved for regional and chief legal counsel. It is not authorized at the FSDO level.
So far as getting information regarding the regulation, you understand that talking to the local FSDO will not provide you any legitimate interpretation of the regulation, and there will never be a time when you can defend your actions on the basis of information obtained from the FSDO.
Regulatory interpretation is reserved for regional and chief legal counsel. It is not authorized at the FSDO level.
04-25-2017, 06:57 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 460
The 350 is a commuter category airplane. 91.531 a. 3 says that no operator may operate a commuter aircraft without an SIC, except they MAY do so if the aircraft is certificated for one pilot and the aircraft has nine or less seats. The operative word being MAY. So if they decide to use an SIC, it is logable in this situation.
Also, an SIC type isn't required. 61.55 (a) 3 says that a type rating is required UNLESS it is a completely domestic operation. Also, 61.55 (b) goes on to list the training required to act as SIC. But, 61.55 (d) says you MAY receive an SIC type, and 61.55 (d) 7 also states that a practical test isn't required in this situation.
So, IF they are willing to teach you about the airplane and CRM, and give you the flight training required by 61.55, you would be able to fly and log SIC. If you want the SIC type, you'd just take your training records and a completed 8710 to the FSDO and they'd issue you one.
Of course this is all paraphrased.
Also, an SIC type isn't required. 61.55 (a) 3 says that a type rating is required UNLESS it is a completely domestic operation. Also, 61.55 (b) goes on to list the training required to act as SIC. But, 61.55 (d) says you MAY receive an SIC type, and 61.55 (d) 7 also states that a practical test isn't required in this situation.
So, IF they are willing to teach you about the airplane and CRM, and give you the flight training required by 61.55, you would be able to fly and log SIC. If you want the SIC type, you'd just take your training records and a completed 8710 to the FSDO and they'd issue you one.
Of course this is all paraphrased.
04-26-2017, 03:38 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by EMAW
The 350 is a commuter category airplane. 91.531 a. 3 says that no operator may operate a commuter aircraft without an SIC, except they MAY do so if the aircraft is certificated for one pilot and the aircraft has nine or less seats. The operative word being MAY. So if they decide to use an SIC, it is logable in this situation.
Also, an SIC type isn't required. 61.55 (a) 3 says that a type rating is required UNLESS it is a completely domestic operation. Also, 61.55 (b) goes on to list the training required to act as SIC. But, 61.55 (d) says you MAY receive an SIC type, and 61.55 (d) 7 also states that a practical test isn't required in this situation.
So, IF they are willing to teach you about the airplane and CRM, and give you the flight training required by 61.55, you would be able to fly and log SIC. If you want the SIC type, you'd just take your training records and a completed 8710 to the FSDO and they'd issue you one.
Of course this is all paraphrased.
Also, an SIC type isn't required. 61.55 (a) 3 says that a type rating is required UNLESS it is a completely domestic operation. Also, 61.55 (b) goes on to list the training required to act as SIC. But, 61.55 (d) says you MAY receive an SIC type, and 61.55 (d) 7 also states that a practical test isn't required in this situation.
So, IF they are willing to teach you about the airplane and CRM, and give you the flight training required by 61.55, you would be able to fly and log SIC. If you want the SIC type, you'd just take your training records and a completed 8710 to the FSDO and they'd issue you one.
Of course this is all paraphrased.
05-07-2017, 01:06 AM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by PT6flyer
I flew co-pilot of a Citation Mustang and CJ4. The owner was single pilot typed. We went though and did all the training for me to get my SIC type in the plane and we flew the plane as a crew. Talked to FAA about it, they said that as long as I was trained on the plane that I could log the time. The single pilot typed person does not have to act on the single pilot qualification if he or she doesn't wish to for that flight.
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