Low hour jobs
 

Graduating in 6 months with my ratings, and looking for some help. I only have 250 hours with 60 multi. I do not have my CFI and don't intend on getting it due to the ridiculous wait to get hired on at my university. I have taken the Air force exams and have submitted a pretty good package there, but who knows how long that will take or how it will end up. So I'm wondering where I should be looking or what I should be looking for. I have tried looking online but don't have the money as a college student these websites want to look at their classifieds. I'm willing to relocate anywhere in the U.S. and probably wouldn't mind going over seas. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The job market is swamped with relatively low-time furloughed airline pilots and unemployed instructors. Overseas might be your only hope, look into central/south America or even Africa if you really have some stones and no particular desire to live for very long.

The CFI's will have an advantage when competing for low-time jobs, since they are trained to a somewhat higher skill and knowledge level than a wet commercial.

If you don't get into the military, better get the instructor ratings. The reality is that they are almost mandatory for entry-level civilians, especially in times like these.

The reality is that without your CFI to build some time and substantial experience you're dead in the water unless you happen to know someone or are willing to pay for a job.

I have my CFI and I STILL can't find a full time job - CFIing or towing banners.

Edit: I realize my post had no useful information.

So I would make a plug to spend the time getting your CFI. I got my commercial couple years ago and I thought I was all that. Commercial multi? I'm good to go! That Shiny jet is just waiting for me. Then I found this place (and reality). But most importantly, I started studying for my CFI and realized how much I DIDN'T know. You will get such a better understanding of aviation by studying for your CFI, even if you dont use it - although you owe it to yourself to teach at least 1 student.

I would argue that a 300 hour commercial pilot with no CFI would be at a disadvantage compared to a 300 hour CFI...

Call or email everyone you know - the higher up the contact, the better. A really useful book is Gregory Brown's "Job Hunting for Pilots." Google "banner tow," "pipeline," "traffic watch," etc. flying jobs in your state. A search in my home state yielded the following sites, among others; I bet that if you tried enough of these, you would get a desirable response:

(As always, be aware that there are fraudulent operations out there)

Worldwide Aerial Advertising Suppliers Banner Towing Skywriting Nightsigns Searchlights
Aerial advertising - Our specialty at US Sky Signs
AERO ADS
Aerial Advertising Service | Flying Ad Banner Towing | Corporate Sky Airplane Logo Banner Ads Tow | Flying Beach Ads | Airplane Flying Logo | Flying Billboard Ads

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The market is horrible for everyone right now, at 250 hours you are looking at banner tow or getting your CFI. Traffic watch is rare and pipeline patrol wants more hours. Good luck landing a banner towing job as all the other 250 hour guys want to tow instead of teach.

The mentality of instructing not being a good job has got to go. It is very rewarding to watch others go to all the steps you went through as a student. I am proud of every one of my students and when they do things such as the first solo or pass a checkride it really does make my day. The pay sucks but at some places it isn't to bad. I suggest getting your CFI and CFII. If anything you will learn what not to do.

Students do some of the most unpredicable things and will place you in bad situations time after time after time. It is your responsibility to keep yourself, your student and your aircraft safe from your student. This may sound like a bad thing but your confidence will grow as well as your ability to remain calm under pressure.

I don't know what banner tow pilots do with their time, listen to a ipod maybe?

I don't see the 250 hour market getting better until spring.

As a CFI, I feel that I have learned really a lot about myself, about how to deal with the infinite numbers of personalities you encounter, about aviation, and has really heightened my skills as a pilot more than any other training I've had by far.

I always thought that being a CFI is alot like being a First Officer for a really bad Captain. I don't see how the CFI experience wouldn't be valuable. But hey, what do I know? :)

Hard market.

With the time and type ratings I had I still couldn't find anything. Guess what. I am still in aviation not flying but making more money than I ever have.

As a commercial pilot with 250 hours you are about as useful as a bottle of water when drowning. I suggest you work on getting your CFI because you will need it in 2 years when flight schools start to need a few CFI's to replace the guys with thousands of hours that leave for the crap regional jobs. Welcome back to the time where you can expect to need 2500 hours to be competitive.

P.S. You can make ok money flight instructing. I know quite a few that make more than 30k a year. Thats more than you might make at a regional for the first few years.

Agree completely.
My only problem with the traditional CFI route (in my own opinion) was that I didn't think that I knew enough to instruct.
Now before CFI's across the nation start jumping on me here - let me make it plain that I am giving my views at the time. I did not want to move right to CFI'ing. Unfortunately it became apparent that it was much harder to build any sort of meaningful time otherwise. I did end up flying jumpers for a little while.
My personal opinion did not change after I joined the military. I was not a great believer in the FAIP/SERGRAD program of the AF/USN. I had the same opinion - that instructors needed some 'fleet' experience before instructing fledgling aviators.
Since them I have seen those programs produce some great pilots and instructors - though again in my own opinion it wouldn't have been for me.
Some of the greatest moments of my career have been as an instructor, but I was very grateful for the growing experience of the 'fleet' before attempting to pass on anything to the 'young'uns'.

USMCFLYR

I agree to the CFI posts. The little CFIing that I have done has given me so much as it is. Teaches you that you have little time to compose your self so you don't get angry. I had a student that played chicken with another aircraft on final, and the other guy was so close that I saw the grease around the cowling. I didn't see the airplane because I was expecting him to be off our front right. I had to take the airplane and get out of the path. As much as I wanted to calm my self down, there was no time for that. Taught me that I always have to be calm under pressure, and not to let the situation get out of hand.
GET YOUR CFI!!!!!!

It is an unusual situation, having mostly to do with economics.

Brand-new instructors have just spent 200-300 hours pounding out the maneuvers...they can generally help others to do the same, and that is what checkrides emphasize.

While the wisdom imparted by an experienced greybeard would certainly be good stuff, most students shop with price as a significant factor or the main factor. Schools can employ low-time CFI's (who can't go anywhere else) for low-time wages and sell a low-cost package that sets the bar for industry. The good news is that there is usually someone with experience on staff, and students generally get exposed to that person also, at least in ground training.

I do know a few professional free-lance CFI's who can charge $80/hour...and there are some clients who will pay for the experience. Many rich guys are cheap to a fault, but some of them have learned about false economy and best value concepts...

I fly with too many mediocre, officially-certified FAA instructors in my present line of work to really think the civilian system produces pilots to what I would call a satisfactory skill level. Too many of them make me wonder if they could get a piston airplane out of a spin, fail to trim the airplane properly, fail to show an acceptable degree of skill in radio calls, do not know how to properly correct for crosswind in the flare, and are unsure of how some or many of the instruments work or even seem to have a realistic plan for an off-airport landing in the case of an engine out. They invariably come from FAA-approved 141 and sometimes 61 programs that do not include any sort of apprenticeship with an advanced pilot. The FAA primary flight training system is set up to pass students without it, and unless the student makes an individual and independent effort to seek out the association of an advanced aviator, they will not and do not find it a part of their training. Such apprenticeship will not occur until the cockpit of an airliner years later for many. Not to thread drift, but I think this is what drives the impending change in minimum hiring standards for airlines to ATP mins.

Geezzzzz.....I couldn't agree with you more. Way to tell it like it is.

In agreement with you, but be careful not to paint with a broad stroke. I see the same thing, and I am a 141 instructor (although I had a mixed background between 141 and 61, and paid for my CFI by flying jumpers). What you say is true, but some of us work very hard to free ourselves from the perception that is all too often given to us. For instance, I encourage my students to read such books as "Fate is the Hunter," etc, to try to bring in some experience that I lack due to my inexperience. I also talk about things as choosing a company to work for, and not going to the lowest paid, bottom of the bucket companies. You can have some good discussions with students over lunch at a cross country destination.

Bottom line is that myself and many of my CFI colleagues (especially the younger ones) are all too aware of the stigma that is associated with us, and work very hard to ensure that we are competent and making competent students, in spite of our glass cockpit aircraft.

Excellent point cub driver I completely agree. DET pilot good for you for trying to encourage the fresh meat. There needs to be more CFIs like that. I still consider myself low time (2800TT/1700 SIC jet) but did not realize how naive, and how low people are willing to stoop for a jet job. Especially the ones from $100k+ 141 schools

I just got passed my CFI checkride, got a CFI job, and cant wait to start teaching!!!! I am looking forward to the experience, and all that I am going to learn. :D

Congrats bud best of luck.....where at? You guys aren't by any chance looking to hire more?

I would love to get my CFI right now but the cost of getting it is turning me off. I am in School and that take up most of my money plus even if i did get the CFI not many places want to hire some one who will be around for four months max to work for them. I plan on getting my CFI eventually but currently it is not an option. My other question for any CFI's who want to answer what are the rewuirements for the type of plane you have to get your CFI in. Are their an restriction on what the aircraft has to have powerplant and flight sysptem wise?

You have to make a complex-retractable available such as a Cessna Cutlass RG for pattern work, otherwise the air work can be done in any typical trainer. Obviously changing airplanes during a checkride is not feasible to save a few bucks, so most people take the entire ride in a retractable. By the time you go for your ride this rule may change as there is a "notice of proposed rule-making" by the FAA to remove the retractable aspect of the definition of "complex" airplane. Make sure to check on that before starting your training and checkride. Getting a CFI is not all that expensive. Go through a Part 61 school. I had maybe a couple of grand into it before mine was done. It's mostly about knowledge- not so much about your flight proficiency; because you have already learned to do all the practical tasks. Buy yourself a flight library and read it thoroughly and take people out to the practice area and teach them to do things. You'll need a spin signoff, and in my opinion you should have a tailwheel signoff as well.

I spent $3,295.00 for my CFI ticket and did it in a arrow.

I am being charged around $20K for my CFI, CFII :S are there a lot of CFI job out there??

You are getting ripped off!

would $15K also be called a ripped off?? Its a part 141

Are you guys serious or what? I cant believe people are asking if 15k is ok for the CFI. Do the math! 10 hours of arrow plus instruction for CFI. 5 hours plus instruction for CFII for 15,000??? Refer to post 21

Yes, BAD deal!

It's your money... but sometimes is pays to research a little (including things like AF pilot slots):)

Honestly I can't see the value of getting my CFI right now. It would be really expensive and totally not worth it. Companies don't want to hire a CFI if the cfi will only be around for three months. I am planning on getting it this next semester so i will have it when i grauate in December and then i can start looking for a job to make some money with my ticket.

The value of getting your CFI II or MEI is not the ability to make money. You simply won't make enough to fool yourself into think there is any real monetary value to it. You will spend countless hours waiting on students that don't show and more than half of the students that do show will bring dangerous attitudes with them that will make you question why you're taking the risk for $300 a week.

The only real reason anyone should be looking at getting their CFI is because they have a desire to teach. Beyond that you need to ensure that your strive to improve your quality as an instructor and educator.

I don't fly full time and I don't really like my full time job. It is a job and it pays me very well for the hours I am required to put in. I am also home every night to sleep in my own bed. Believe it or not wife is even happy to see me most of the time.

For fun I teach part time at two seperate flight schools. Now pay attention to that last sentence. I do it for fun and there really isn't any other reason. I get paid less and have to travel further than my day job but I love it. If you don't love teaching don't try being a CFI. I am saying this not only for your sake but that of your future students.

Good luck with whatever decisions you make.

Look at American Flyers. They have a 1 month CFI/II intensive course that is great. I did it in Santa Monica (talk about a view!). It was around $6000 I think. Great program...you just eat, sleep and breathe regs, systems, airspace, etc. for a month.

At our school (141) its about 4,000 for the CFI. Includes about 20 hours of flight (half arrow, half archer) and some time in a 152 demonstrating spins!

CFII is $2200 and MEI is $4400 although you it assumes you have about 8 hours PIC ME time so you may need to buy extra time.

We actually have a really nifty course that combines the CFII and MEI into one course. Its $7500 but you get 25 hours of ME time. The really cool part is its only 1 checkride/oral. When you're done you get your II and MEI.

low-time
 

Anyone know of any low-time jobs in west florida?

Believe it or not the forest service was hiring awhile ago. I'm not sure if they're full up now.

The mass majority of people are going to say CFI and thats probably the right choice. There arent that many other options out there, unfortunately. And if you are able to land a position without having to get your CFI consider yourself lucky.