To Do It? (Am I too old to be a comm. pilot?)
07-19-2010, 12:06 AM
#21
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
An interest in self preservation
I chalk it up to an interest in self preservation. Some might be able to blow a fortune on college, flight training plus a decade of your life and brush it off to "experience" as they start over from nothing in their middle 30's. I however think that a repeated crime is taking place in flight schools and colleges across the nation.
If people really knew what they were up against those with an interest in self preservation, like myself, would have been offered a fair chance at backing out. When I started on my path it was with the belief that aviation was a valuable profession that offered those with the perseverance to make it through all the hoops to certification a fair and equitable career.
I am not bitter but justifiably disappointed. The profession is commonly misrepresented to new applicants. Some might be conformable with investing the cost of a small house into a career that usually produces a mailman's wage and demands most of the control over your life. I however can not find peace with those numbers.
I invested into a profession but got a working hobby instead. Others need to know. If you are comfortable with spending your life as a single person of simple means and does not have ties to home, friends or family then you might find happiness as a pilot. However if those things mean anything to you then misery awaits.
Skyhigh
Success in aviation is a vanity that demands a very high price and it is the family that takes the brunt of it.
If people really knew what they were up against those with an interest in self preservation, like myself, would have been offered a fair chance at backing out. When I started on my path it was with the belief that aviation was a valuable profession that offered those with the perseverance to make it through all the hoops to certification a fair and equitable career.
I am not bitter but justifiably disappointed. The profession is commonly misrepresented to new applicants. Some might be conformable with investing the cost of a small house into a career that usually produces a mailman's wage and demands most of the control over your life. I however can not find peace with those numbers.
I invested into a profession but got a working hobby instead. Others need to know. If you are comfortable with spending your life as a single person of simple means and does not have ties to home, friends or family then you might find happiness as a pilot. However if those things mean anything to you then misery awaits.
Skyhigh
Success in aviation is a vanity that demands a very high price and it is the family that takes the brunt of it.
Last edited by SkyHigh; 07-19-2010 at 01:23 AM.
07-19-2010, 04:36 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
Getting into aviation is VERY cyclical, and luck is a HUGE part of how it goes for you, as far as when you are available with what types of experience.
Now, is maybe the best time ever to get into aviation (other than the 1960s, when UAL was hiring guys IN HIGH SCHOOL who only had a PPL). I would go for it, and don't wait, as starting training in 2 years from now when things are REALLY on the upswing is behind the power curve!
cliff
LFW
Getting into aviation is VERY cyclical, and luck is a HUGE part of how it goes for you, as far as when you are available with what types of experience.
Now, is maybe the best time ever to get into aviation (other than the 1960s, when UAL was hiring guys IN HIGH SCHOOL who only had a PPL). I would go for it, and don't wait, as starting training in 2 years from now when things are REALLY on the upswing is behind the power curve!
cliff
LFW
07-19-2010, 07:43 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"I invested into a profession but got a working hobby instead."
If not for your own personal choice, you'd be a Captain at Horizon now. The fact that you don't find that worthy, to this day, doesn't mean many other folks interested in the career will not find happiness as a pilot. You paint a picture of extreme negativity with often unreasonable and outlandish statements. I just hope people read a good bit of your posting history here before they decide to lend you any credibility.
"I however think that a repeated crime is taking place in flight schools and colleges across the nation."
I don't disagree. But it's just as much of a crime to present an intentionally unbalanced picture by telling someone interested in the career they would be better off as a mailman. There are many jobs in aviation where you can make as much as a mailman flying airplanes. But if you want to be home every night and never move to a new place, flying might not be a great choice.
If not for your own personal choice, you'd be a Captain at Horizon now. The fact that you don't find that worthy, to this day, doesn't mean many other folks interested in the career will not find happiness as a pilot. You paint a picture of extreme negativity with often unreasonable and outlandish statements. I just hope people read a good bit of your posting history here before they decide to lend you any credibility.
"I however think that a repeated crime is taking place in flight schools and colleges across the nation."
I don't disagree. But it's just as much of a crime to present an intentionally unbalanced picture by telling someone interested in the career they would be better off as a mailman. There are many jobs in aviation where you can make as much as a mailman flying airplanes. But if you want to be home every night and never move to a new place, flying might not be a great choice.
07-19-2010, 08:53 AM
#24
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Destination 737
Originally Posted by de727ups
"I invested into a profession but got a working hobby instead."
If not for your own personal choice, you'd be a Captain at Horizon now. The fact that you don't find that worthy, to this day, doesn't mean many other folks interested in the career will not find happiness as a pilot. You paint a picture of extreme negativity with often unreasonable and outlandish statements. I just hope people read a good bit of your posting history here before they decide to lend you any credibility.
"I however think that a repeated crime is taking place in flight schools and colleges across the nation."
I don't disagree. But it's just as much of a crime to present an intentionally unbalanced picture by telling someone interested in the career they would be better off as a mailman. There are many jobs in aviation where you can make as much as a mailman flying airplanes. But if you want to be home every night and never move to a new place, flying might not be a great choice.
If not for your own personal choice, you'd be a Captain at Horizon now. The fact that you don't find that worthy, to this day, doesn't mean many other folks interested in the career will not find happiness as a pilot. You paint a picture of extreme negativity with often unreasonable and outlandish statements. I just hope people read a good bit of your posting history here before they decide to lend you any credibility.
"I however think that a repeated crime is taking place in flight schools and colleges across the nation."
I don't disagree. But it's just as much of a crime to present an intentionally unbalanced picture by telling someone interested in the career they would be better off as a mailman. There are many jobs in aviation where you can make as much as a mailman flying airplanes. But if you want to be home every night and never move to a new place, flying might not be a great choice.
Back when I started my career myself and peer group were universally shooting for something more than a regional. Life as a regional pilot is hugely discounted over what our peers enjoy just one rung up the ladder.
For that matter I do not think that many initiate an aviation career with the goal of flying a turboprop for a quarter of the wages and benefits that someone at a legacy earns. If you had flown for a regional then you would know that their daily life is punishing and the wages insufficient for the job required.
Most do it in hopes of making the leap to a legacy soon after and usually end up getting stuck there for their career. Regionals are not a happy place for most and I have never been one to settle for less.
In addition, from a financial perspective it just does not pencil out to invest a small fortune and perhaps as much as fifteen years at crushingly low wages to make it to the left seat at a regional to earn a bit more than a new plumber while selling off your weekends and holidays to the company. My goals were specific. Flying for a regional just was not going to cut it.
I do not believe that most enter flight training with the expectation of making a career at a regional. It is what happens to you. I could not accept that and why should I? I have a life that I was willing to fit aviation into. I was not prepared to sell off the rest of my dreams to remain in the saddle at regional wages.
My belief is that if most people were accurately given the facts about their career prospects they would choose self preservation. I made my investment for a career at a legacy and it is my belief that most others enter the profession with similar intentions. A regional is not worth it.
Skyhigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 07-19-2010 at 10:17 AM.
07-19-2010, 09:05 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 474
Originally Posted by Wings and Water
Well, here I am at 31 years of age contemplating a career change. I was brought up in the aviation industry and my father was a 121 guy. I have seen the ups and downs of this industry and I know how difficult it can be. I also know that I dislike being in the corporate world, after 8 years of corporate sales, I will not go back. So I am now looking at entering the field, at a late age.
With this in mind, would you all (those with years of experience in the aviation industry) think about becoming a pilot or stay where I am, doing what I am doing. I know that I have to decide, just trying to get a feel for what the general feeling is. I appreciate all insight and thank you all in advance.
With this in mind, would you all (those with years of experience in the aviation industry) think about becoming a pilot or stay where I am, doing what I am doing. I know that I have to decide, just trying to get a feel for what the general feeling is. I appreciate all insight and thank you all in advance.
The industry is in the pits right now. Thousands furloughed, thousands under-employed, thousands waiting on the sidelines in the military or nonaviation jobs waiting for an opportunity to get back in. You'll hear alot about an up and coming, just around the corner, pilot shortage. I've been hearing about it for a couple of decades now, and it has yet to materialize. Maybe there will be one in the future, maybe not, but right now there certainly doesn't appear that there will be one in the foreseeable future.
If I were you and you definitely are going to go forward with this, I would save as much money as possible as you're going to probably to need some savings to support your current standard of living until you get a decent job. I would also take your time with your flight training until you see some hope of real hiring at the entry level tier of this profession. Otherwise, you're going to have alot of expensive ratings and certificates with no flying job to go to.
The Truth About the Profession - Home
Good luck.
07-19-2010, 10:52 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
Some mail man stats from:
Career Information
(I like to back my stuff up with facts, not wild assed BS)
"In approximately 12½ years, a carrier reaches the top of the salary schedule, which stood at $25.36 per hour as of August 30, 2008."
So, let's say that's $200 per day, five days a week, that's 4K per month for 20 days of work, 48K a year (that's maxed out pay at the 12 year mark). According to APC, at Horizon you'd be a Captain at the 12 year mark and be making $93/hr. That's going to work out to 93K a year which is almost twice what a mailman makes.
Not trying to say being a pilot sucks or being a mailman sucks. But just pointing out some facts about why Skyhigh needs to do some research on his mailman propaganda.
Career Information
(I like to back my stuff up with facts, not wild assed BS)
"In approximately 12½ years, a carrier reaches the top of the salary schedule, which stood at $25.36 per hour as of August 30, 2008."
So, let's say that's $200 per day, five days a week, that's 4K per month for 20 days of work, 48K a year (that's maxed out pay at the 12 year mark). According to APC, at Horizon you'd be a Captain at the 12 year mark and be making $93/hr. That's going to work out to 93K a year which is almost twice what a mailman makes.
Not trying to say being a pilot sucks or being a mailman sucks. But just pointing out some facts about why Skyhigh needs to do some research on his mailman propaganda.
07-19-2010, 03:45 PM
#27
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Mis-information
Originally Posted by de727ups
Some mail man stats from:
Career Information
(I like to back my stuff up with facts, not wild assed BS)
"In approximately 12½ years, a carrier reaches the top of the salary schedule, which stood at $25.36 per hour as of August 30, 2008."
So, let's say that's $200 per day, five days a week, that's 4K per month for 20 days of work, 48K a year (that's maxed out pay at the 12 year mark). According to APC, at Horizon you'd be a Captain at the 12 year mark and be making $93/hr. That's going to work out to 93K a year which is almost twice what a mailman makes.
Not trying to say being a pilot sucks or being a mailman sucks. But just pointing out some facts about why Skyhigh needs to do some research on his mailman propaganda.
Career Information
(I like to back my stuff up with facts, not wild assed BS)
"In approximately 12½ years, a carrier reaches the top of the salary schedule, which stood at $25.36 per hour as of August 30, 2008."
So, let's say that's $200 per day, five days a week, that's 4K per month for 20 days of work, 48K a year (that's maxed out pay at the 12 year mark). According to APC, at Horizon you'd be a Captain at the 12 year mark and be making $93/hr. That's going to work out to 93K a year which is almost twice what a mailman makes.
Not trying to say being a pilot sucks or being a mailman sucks. But just pointing out some facts about why Skyhigh needs to do some research on his mailman propaganda.
As far as the postman is concerned he is able to make 48K in salary without any college or training costs. Plus don't forget in addition the postman has an excellent retirement plus government health care. Horizon Air pilots have to pay for their own 401K and when I was there had to supplement their insurance to get their family covered.
Subtract at least 10 to 15% from the Horizon Air pilots gross wages to cover the self funded retirement plan plus another 15K per year in opportunity cost to cover the investment made in four to five years in college (150K and rising) and for the price of pilot training (60 to 90K and rising). A pilots return is cut down considerably.
Besides all that it takes an average pilot at horizon as long as 15 years to reach the left seat (or longer) from day one of college. A mailman can start at 18 Years of age. By the time a pilot has reached a point where they can begin to match what a mailman has made for the last 15 years the mailman is already looking towards early retirement and a paid off house. The time value of money has another ominous effect on the numbers to further reduce what a Horizon Pilot makes.
I could go on, but I know that you are already getting bored.
Skyhigh
07-19-2010, 04:28 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Airbus 319/320 Captain
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by de727ups
Some mail man stats from:
Career Information
(I like to back my stuff up with facts, not wild assed BS)
"In approximately 12½ years, a carrier reaches the top of the salary schedule, which stood at $25.36 per hour as of August 30, 2008."
So, let's say that's $200 per day, five days a week, that's 4K per month for 20 days of work, 48K a year (that's maxed out pay at the 12 year mark). According to APC, at Horizon you'd be a Captain at the 12 year mark and be making $93/hr. That's going to work out to 93K a year which is almost twice what a mailman makes.
Not trying to say being a pilot sucks or being a mailman sucks. But just pointing out some facts about why Skyhigh needs to do some research on his mailman propaganda.
Career Information
(I like to back my stuff up with facts, not wild assed BS)
"In approximately 12½ years, a carrier reaches the top of the salary schedule, which stood at $25.36 per hour as of August 30, 2008."
So, let's say that's $200 per day, five days a week, that's 4K per month for 20 days of work, 48K a year (that's maxed out pay at the 12 year mark). According to APC, at Horizon you'd be a Captain at the 12 year mark and be making $93/hr. That's going to work out to 93K a year which is almost twice what a mailman makes.
Not trying to say being a pilot sucks or being a mailman sucks. But just pointing out some facts about why Skyhigh needs to do some research on his mailman propaganda.
07-19-2010, 08:02 PM
#30
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Price
Originally Posted by HercDriver130
and 4 of the 6 mailmen I know personally HATE their jobs.
Skyhigh
