g4downin

In other words they probably aren't hiring? I called them a couple of weeks ago and the gentleman I talked to didn't sound to optimistic about hiring in the near future.

I had an interview at Chicago Executive Flight School 2 months ago but nearly walked out of the interview when the interviewer told me that id be making 15/hr and would have to spend 4 hour shifts (unpaid mind you) hanging out at the airport waiting for intro rides. Those two combined seemed like a portend for wonderful treatment by mgmt as CFI there.

I have heard nothing but good things about Windy City Flyers though. Too bad they aren't hiring.

snippercr

I've heard of that place before and really want to know how that can be legal. Require you to sit around the airport, UNPAID, doing deskwork. I know a few people who have gone there and they say how much it sucks. They get a few hours and a few bucks, but Id rather be working flipping burgers making more than doing b!tch work and not getting paid.

g4downin

Its total crap. That new regulation requiring that you must have 1500 hrs for FOs is total crap as well. This legislation is extremely misguided. I think as a result we may see more of the working conditions similar to those up at Exec Flight School. The feds should be passing legislation on pay for first officers in the airline industry.

brian434

You just have to go where there are less qualified pilots. Try the central US and southern coast. I walked into two part time CFI jobs as soon as I moved down here with the Air Force and now I have a salaried job flying a Cessna 206. It's not a shinny jet but I get paid almost $20,000 more than a first year FO. Go where there aren't a ton of flight schools and you willl find more work. The cost of living where I am at is a lot cheaper too. I moved from Michigan about a year ago.

FlyJSH

If you had a job and left it without another one, that was not a very smart move. Unless your spouse makes enough to support both of you, limiting yourself to just Chicago makes the search tougher.

You do realize at a regional, it typically takes 12-14 hours of duty to earn 7 hours of pay? I'm not defending the company's policy, it's just something to think about. Also, they must be getting enough people who are willing to accept the deal or else it would go away.

It is legal because you would be an independent contractor, NOT and employee (don't know the difference? that is your first assignment in labor law and policies). If flipping burgers is more to your liking, feel free to pursue that path.

Not just 1500 hours, an ATP! And no, it isn't crap. Having flown with several people who got to a regional too soon, it was the right thing to do (if you disagree, please feel free to read the hundreds of pages on this topic in several other threads). Regarding pay, that law will eventually increase initial pay.. some amount, by reducing the supply of pilots. Don't believe me? Look at the last quote, there was a guy who would rather flip burgers. Ah, one less competitor.

DING DING DING! This guy figured it out a long time ago and made it happen. Good for you Brian!

Another thing to consider about future pay is the case of Brian. As he says, 20k more than an FO. I had a similar experience flying a 208 and 421. It's gonna be a lot tougher to convince guys like Brian to take a PAY CUT for several years to "come fly our Emb-bardier 3000 (it's a REALLY big shinny jet)" when he could sit right seat of a Citation or Lear and make close to turbo prop CA pay. Depending on his luck and contacts, he might even be able to bypass the regionals altogether.

g4downin

[quote=FlyJSH;876187]If you had a job and left it without another one, that was not a very smart move. Unless your spouse makes enough to support both of you, limiting yourself to just Chicago makes the search tougher.

I wouldn't be as presumptuous to say that an action wasn't a smart move for another person whom I have never met nor know their life circumstances.

Not just 1500 hours, an ATP! And no, it isn't crap. Having flown with several people who got to a regional too soon, it was the right thing to do (if you disagree, please feel free to read the hundreds of pages on this topic in several other threads).

It isn't crap? Well I guess its hard to tell before they implement policy change what was misguided and what has merit. Why don't they just be more selective with the hiring process? Surely you can have a more effective hiring process without creating another stumbling block for people who want to do this job for a living. With a coming pilot shortage, this very well could be a huge problem for the industry.

The 1500 hour and ATP requirement was a knee-jerk reaction to the Buffalo accident was it not? The public "demanded change" the system and rightly so. In our haste, is it possible we didn't look at the negative consequences that this might have?

Look at the two pilots involved in the accident. The Captain had failed previous checkrides and was a mediocre performer on others. Why didn't we focus the regulations on this issue more? Why not focus on crew fatigue or minimum pilot pay at the regional airlines? How about regional airlines training programs? Or perhaps they should require low-time new hires with the more senior/distinguished captains?

Well that's my humble opinion and its subject to change. Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle and someone can fill me in.

USMCFLYR

They are in current compliance with Federal regualtions. The Feds need to up the requirements - not the airlines. I mean you don't voluntarily offer to pay more for gas at the pump do you?

Well this "stumbling block" that you see now will look a lot different when you are further along in the business I'm sure.

IF you are a believer in a coming TRUE PILOT SHORTAGE, then there isn't much that can be said to dissuade you from your opinion that somebody (or some advertising) had planted into your head before others with different views got to influence you. I guess you will just have to read, watch, and learn and reevaluate your opinions at a later time.

Many would say that it was the FINAL STRAW type of incident that finally broke that poor camel's back, not a reaction to a single incident. If you think that the government is quick enough to react to a single event like that then we wouldn't be in the situation we are in concerning MANY different areas today.

I believe that I have read on this forum that very issues have been brought to the attention of the policy makers for - - - let's say 20+ years? Since deregulation maybe? I'm not sure. I'm still learning about this civil aviation business myself.

Enjoy APC and peruse the forums! They are full of great information - bias and unbias. Just make sure and run all of the proffered information through your own filter and do some of your own research and I'm sure that things will be more and more clear for you. ENJOY!

USMCFLYR

FlyJSH

"I wouldn't be as presumptuous to say that an action wasn't a smart move for another person whom I have never met nor know their life circumstances."


You are correct. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. Perhaps he doesn't need any income during his transition. I just assumed that he, like I, needs money to pay for food and housing.

g4downin

Thanks for the input. It is duly and respectfully noted!

g4downin

I like to stir debate so I take advantage of anytime I can hit on a hot button issue. Thanks for the input about the new regulation. I must admit I haven't done more than a cursory review of the legislation. Any input I can get from any side of issues expands my knowledge.