Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Part 91 and Low Time
Low-Time Pilot - Where to go from here? >

Low-Time Pilot - Where to go from here?

Notices
Part 91 and Low Time Jump pilots, crop dusting, and other Part 91 jobs

Low-Time Pilot - Where to go from here?

Old 10-10-2010, 02:10 AM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: 145
Posts: 219
Arrow Low-Time Pilot - Where to go from here?

I have about 275 hours TT with ~50 multi and commercial/multi certificates. To make a long story as short as possible, I went to a flight school that went bankrupt a little over a year ago, lost some money (basically what I had put down for CFIs). At the time I was very close to finishing a commercial multi 141 program, so I went ahead and finished commercial and multi part 61. I'm currently working a couple jobs saving up to get my CFI/II/MEI. I moved back home with my parents (yuck) which is in a small midwest town. This place is really a dead end for getting started in aviation, I work at the local FBO and there is nothing to be had job-wise for pilots and CFIs. Its even really tough to get some right seat time with anyone based out of the airport because there's several of us at the FBO that are low-time and fighting over anything we can get hehe. Meanwhile I"ve been applying for various low-time jobs that I hear about, but nothing comes of it.

I've finally gotten to the point where I've scraped together almost enough money to do CFI and possibly CFII at the beginning of next year, and I feel like I really need to get the ball rolling on my career, especially with that 1500 hour rule coming up.

However, I'm really having a dilemma of where to get my CFI ratings at. A lot of people have told me the best thing to do is find a school that is/will be hiring CFIs and get my CFI stuff done there and I will have my foot in the door to be hired. But that seems easier said than done. I've been looking around a lot, and pretty much every place tells me they aren't hiring, or they have a wait-list of people who have done most/all of their flying with them, or have minimums that just aren't obtainable for a first job like at least 350-500 hours plus 100 multi.

Would i be better off taking my chances on going to a smaller no-name school that *may* be hiring at some point in the future, but isn't very well-known for hiring prospects elsewhere? Or do I go to one of the pilot-mills like American Flyers or ATP that at least carries a name with it? Does anyone have any advice or opinion on American Flyers and/or ATP and would my hiring prospects be good coming out of a place like that? I don't mind relocating, and I'd prefer to go somewhere in the south (Georgia, Florida, etc).

If anyone has an alternative ideas to doing the CFI thing that would be great too. I don't mind being a CFI, and I do want to instruct, but the whole flight school bankruptcy thing has put constraints on how much more money I can spend on this, so the less is the better. I just want to start getting paid to fly, it doesn't have to be a lot since I've been surviving on my barely-above-minimum-wage FBO job, I just need to be getting some flight time (that I"m not shelling out my own money for) and progressing towards my career goal.

Sorry for the ridiculously long post. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Celeste is offline  
Old 10-10-2010, 08:28 AM
  #2  
Does NOT get weekends off
 
snippercr's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ - 145
Posts: 1,631
Default

Most people would recommend staying at your dead end airport, getting your CFI and working their parttime while you hold a full time job elsewhere. You will be flying 152s a couple times a week if you are lucky and have NO prospects of multiengine time. The only real people who want multi engine time are career orientated pilots and those are few and far between.

When I was working parttime, it would have taken about 5 years to just get 1500 hours and that was actually with a more than parttime load. Dont forget as a CFI, not only do you have to provide flight training, but also ground training.

I will go against the flow and recommend you go to a larger school to get your CFI and hopefully get employed as a full time instructor. You'll get far more hours and be able to get out of it sooner. As a CFI, I have found it is (usually) easier to teach career orientated pilots than it is to teach weekend pilots who just want their private license. If you can get a job associated with a University, even better since you have students who are concerned with grades and generally a bit more dedicated (although their dedication is split between partying and academics).

Talk with ATP. I didnt go their but my buddy did. If you get your CFI/II/MEI there, see if they would hire you after wards. You'll be teaching in seminoles a lot more since they stress multi engine time. Well, the industry stresses multi engine time and thats what you need.

Those are just my 2 cents... probably will draw some flack but hey.

Cheers!

Edit:

Sorry I must not have read the rest of your post. As of alternates to CFIing, there really is nothing. A FEW select people can get alternates but generally they are paying for it or not getting paid. Example: one person I know has an opportunity to fly a king air on a few legs part 91 but wont get paid. Some people are diver drivers and they also do not get paid. CFIing is one of the few entry level jobs that you build hours and get paid.

Also, keep your chin up. Things ARE starting to turn around. Airlines are hiring and there IS some movement. After almost 2 years of no one leaving at my flight school, we have had 3 get hired at eagle, 1 to the ANG, 1 recalled to Republic, and 1 to a 135 outfit. If eagle keeps hiring and now a few other airlines are hiring, things ARE looking up. Once 2012/2013 rolls around and the 65ers are forced to finally retire, there will be more movement. Slow at first but it will be there. May not be the @$#% $%#$% (taboo phrase that rhymes with "pilot portage") but there will be movement.

The ATP rule will definitely be an obstacle. Not so much the hour requirement, but that cross country time! I am at 700TT but only 200XC. At my current rate, when I reach 1500 I'll only have about 350XC time.

Good luck sir. Study hard for that CFI.
snippercr is offline  
Old 10-10-2010, 08:59 AM
  #3  
Moderator
 
Cubdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Default

Snipper gives some valid thoughts, nice post. There are a lot of variables is your equation, but the loudest one I hear is money. If that is correct, you are going to have a hard time getting the money to attend a pilot mill or a pilot school because that is by far the most expensive route. But for those wanting to get going on a professional pilot career without worrying about check-the-box or fallback academics, large pilot schools really are the way to go because other ways take too long to get the flight numbers you need. So my advice would be to try very hard to get a scholarship or a low-interest loan to a large flight academy, and then go to it.

If money is simply not available despite a search for sponsors, loans, and scholarships, then your choices are limited and you will have to keep working a wage job and add flight ratings and flight time locally in a small town until you reach the limit of the value of that activity. It is fairly easy to get Airplane Instructor (CFI) and Instrument Airplane (CFII) certificates living in a small town, but the MEI is often hard to obtain and there are almost never any students even if you do.

So I would proceed on your CFI and CFII and try and get a student or two after achieving them, adding flight time instructing as the local market allows, and look for low-end commercial gigs like skydiver flying. Actually, once you have the instructor certs low-end flying jobs will be much easier to get, because the teaching certs act as door openers. If a really good one comes along you can leave town and go full time, or at least continue to add single-engine time to your total.

At some point you are going to have over a thousand hours of single-engine time and adding more will be of diminishing value. You will want to concentrate on multi-engine time then. To do that you are going to need to have your MEI. I would say to look at the problem again at that point, because it is several years down the road. You may also meet a local person with a twin which would provide a unique solution. Good luck.
Cubdriver is offline  
Old 10-10-2010, 04:29 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Jets and Props
Posts: 188
Default

look to try and drop skydivers, its what i did and its a lot of fun too.
cubbies4life is offline  
Old 10-10-2010, 04:36 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: A-320 FO
Posts: 693
Default

Not to overshadow what was mentioned above, however the CFI route may not be a bad route to pursue. Keeping students motivated is probably one of the most difficult things to do today, and retaining students is more difficult than ever before. You may need to throw in a bone such as free ground school. If they need a CFII, see if the owner will work with you. Oftentimes some of the older part time guys will give you some time, then do your check rides with the local FSDO, they're free. Eager to get some multi time, I found a school with a couple of twin Beeches, including a Dutchess, and Baron 58. Fortunately they needed an instructor with a multi I. I trained with the CP (free), and flew with the local FSDO, (again, free). This gives you the ability to capitalize on your resources, and meet some of the FAA people that contrary to popular myth, really are there to help you. Good luck!
clipperskipper is offline  
Old 10-10-2010, 04:52 PM
  #6  
Does NOT get weekends off
 
snippercr's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ - 145
Posts: 1,631
Default

Originally Posted by cubbies4life View Post
look to try and drop skydivers, its what i did and its a lot of fun too.
The problem with being a jumper dumper is there is no ability to build XC time. It means you will have to get some other job after you drive divers. It couldnt even lead to a 135 job since that requires point to point XC as well.

At least with the CFI route all levels of instructing require some sort of XC. Your best bet is CFIIing since most students try to combine the instrument, instruction and XC time and you will be on XCs most of the time (and building TT).

For those looking for 121 jobs, for once I think there is a contender with the most important "column" in your logbook. First it was multi-engine, but now I would say XC since you need the 50nm XC to get an ATP (required for 121).
snippercr is offline  
Old 10-11-2010, 03:35 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: right seat
Posts: 238
Default

get the cfi some places will pay /train you the cfii /mei ATP will cost you a heart and a lung .

that being said I heard mei instructors are not getting a bunch of work in this economy
featheredprop is offline  
Old 10-13-2010, 02:02 AM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: 145
Posts: 219
Default

Thanks for all of the advice. I do think CFIing is the best route. But, I have also applied for for a couple of sky diving and aerial survey type jobs. I figure with something like skydiving, it would be a good job for a season, but I would probably end up instructing unless I happened to get another job that would get me xcountry/instrument/multi after some time. At this point, working a job that would get me flight time would put me in a better place than I'm in right now. I just want to explore all my options .

As for cost of getting my CFI, I've found that programs at some of the pilot mills are actually similar or possibly less than a lot of the smaller FBO schools I've looked into. Part of the problem is that where I live there aren't any complex planes available for rental or instruction, the closest schools are 2+ hours away and their rates for their complex planes are around $150-160 + $40ish for CFI time. I figure if it plan on at least 10-15 hours in the plane plus 25 hours of ground that will run me about 3-4K.

When I look at the cost and the commute those 30 day CFI academies that American Flyers and ATP have sound very appealing. I guess what I really want to know is that if I go that route will it look bad to a prospective employer that I went through an accelerated CFI course? And do any of you have opinions on the quality of instruction at ATP or American Flyers, as opposed to a smaller part 61 outfit? If you were hiring an instructor, what would you rather have?

Originally Posted by featheredprop View Post
get the cfi some places will pay /train you the cfii /mei ATP will cost you a heart and a lung .
I don't think that is happening in this economy. According to job postings and people I've talked to, so many places won't consider an applicant without at least a CFI and CFII, and many want an MEI and a bunch of hours on top of that. Unless things really turn around I think the best I can hope for is someone to hire me and then give me an employee discount on rental and instruction for II/MEI. But if you know any places that are offering this to CFI hires, let me know I will definitely check them out.

Again, thanks for all the help and advice.
Celeste is offline  
Old 10-13-2010, 06:45 AM
  #9  
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Default Consider buying a plane

Consider buying a plane. You could put on an additional few hundred hours in no time. You could also use it to stay current and to quickly fly to many different airports on the job hunt.

I am not so sure that instructing is going to be a good deal into the future due to the sharp decline in students.

Skyhigh
SkyHigh is offline  
Old 10-13-2010, 08:12 AM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: SA227, left seat
Posts: 109
Default

Check out the flying school a.k.a. Colorado Contrails at Ft. Collins Loveland airport in Loveland, CO. It's a smaller school, but the CFI/II ground school and training is awesome! Both ratings cost me a total of $5200 including checkride fee for II. I went there and had 3 other friends finish the course, all from California, and none of us has had any trouble finding a job.

Definitely get the CFII at the same time if possible. You'll be way more marketable and won't have to watch your students go to another instructor for IR training. I'm only at about 500 hours right now, but it's amazing what an extra 200 hours and the CFI/CFII does for your resume.
jcrews is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Sr. Barco
Regional
89
09-15-2013 07:22 PM
Sniper
Aviation Law
13
11-15-2009 08:16 PM
flyboyjake
Part 135
40
12-19-2008 12:20 PM
AndresUmana
Hiring News
3
09-06-2006 03:04 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices