Split decision
 

Just finished my CFI-A and II. Probably spent $6,000 on both...I am a low time pilot (lower than all regional minimums) however I was just offered an interview at a small regional (not going to say the name, as it may cause flame) *cough* Gulfstream *cough*. I understand the company is turning around, or so they claim, and no longer run a pay-to-fly. I'm not starting this thread for people to bash Gulfstream, share their beliefs, etc. All I want to know is...do I pursue instructing for, lets say a year, and head to the "better" paying regionals and sit right seat chasing an upgrade? Do I pursue instructing for, lets say two years, and find a 135/frac job flying corporate? Or do I pursue Gulfstream, suck it up for a few years where I can hopefully log Turbine PIC time sooner than most other regionals (or so i've been told) and go to greener pastures...I know this is a loaded question, but think of it as more of a WWYD scenario...I have no wife(s), kids, dogs, etc tied to me right now. Just a huge student loan payment...

I'd say that multi-turbine time would be a better way to build time than working as a single engine CFI. You've done your homework on Gulfstream's history and reputation, although they are out of Bankruptcy, the academy is closed, and they have aircraft on order (Saab 340s).

The new owners, Victory Park Capital, own some well known brands and appear to have the cash to keep Gulfstream operating.

Victory Park Completes Acquisition of Gulfstream International Group, Inc. | News & Press Releases | Victory Park Capital

That said, they start at $19/hr, which is not quite poverty, but after taxes it'll be close.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/11poverty.shtml

Just curious, what kind of times did you need to get looked at?

You're an easy year and a half out from upgrading, the hardest part is asking yourself that with your low time are you ready for an airline?

I'd like to think so...I know most people on this forum will probably laugh at this, but I graduated from Florida Tech and have had some exposure to airline operations, systems, etc. I've learned some ERJ flows and profiles, took a full semester course on ERJ systems, earned a 121 Dispatch certification. What classes I take means nothing in the airlines...I'd like to think it has more to do with the individual person. I think I can do it. I'm a fast learner, and I've been a 400 passenger ferry Captain since I was 19 (currently going on 23) so I like to think I can handle the responsibility, I hope.

Are you going to go be able to go from Gulfstream to a major airline? Most likely not, they won't need pilots for a long time, and when they do there'll be so many more qualified pilots. I'd say go for a regional that you can grow into and that at worst case, could become your career. You can enjoy a lot more fun time instructing and some instruction gigs can pay some decent money these days, then you'll be competative for any regional you want, and while you might get turbine or turbine PIC at Gulfstream, realize that in the last 10 years, maybe longer, no one has worked at regional for a "year or two" and then went to a major airline.

I don't think that "greener" pasture exists if you're thinking of major airlines.

BUT, and this a big one, there are MANY opportunities out there, government, fractional and corporate (like you are discussing) and so on. Maybe if that's what you want to do, then go for it. Just don't commit yourself to the major-airline IMO.

James, thanks for the input. As nice as it would be to just do a year or two and go to the majors, I understand thats simply not the reality of the situation anymore. I do, however, have 2 family members at one of the majors (wont say who) They claim they can help me out if I just get the hours, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm currently in Long Island, and it seems like there are a lot of flying opportunities here (corporate, frac, part 91, etc). I would just rather not instruct for the next 2 years, especially during the winters. But hey, everyones gotta do what they gotta do...besides, I dont think I can live off of $19 per hour when I can just mooch off my parents a little longer :-)

^^short term this answer is good, but in the long term, more people make out by getting their time and going on to at least a J6 or Atlas. Better to spend 3 to 5 years at Gulfstream and goto an Atlas of J6 possibly by then a real major airline, then go build time for a year hoping that hiring is still going on in a year...which means you might have to wait another year or two, to go to a skywest, wait 4 years to upgrade, then spend 2 more years, then suddenly be 35 and not wanting to leave that 80k+ paycheck to chase that real dream of a major...fwiw

By Atlas you mean the Cargo carrier? And by J6 you mean...

I was curious what he meant, so I checked airline codes...and J6 is:
Larry's Flying Service

I'm guessing that's not what he was going for. :p

Multi is definitely more 'valuable' than single time in the long run. If you could get through training and survive on their wages for a year or two, it mightn't be a bad gig. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; you have to weigh the options to see what you're comfortable with doing.

And random tangent - if you do go there, 135, wherever, always keep that CFI current. Never know when you could need or want it.

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You know, guys like us (comm pilots not quite ready for 121) are really betting all our chips on this "pilot shortage" coming to fruition... because if it doesn't, we totally just missed the boat. With the amount of pilots the regionals have hired within the last 6-12 months, if there ends up being nowhere for them to move up to, then there is about to be some serious stagnation in the 121 world. If that ends up being the case then forget the majors, we will be considering ourselves lucky just to get a spot at a regional.

You mention that you are single. That's helpful in this industry :-) Don't rule out overseas work either. There are contracts for 1900 captains. Other turboprop jobs are in ATR's and Q400's. Money is great and flight time is plentiful. In my opinion, you are best served by being a Captain and your route to that seat may be relatively faster at GIA. I say take the job if you can.

Take the Gulfstream job.

Better for resume. CFI hours is just filler.

Get the JOB OFFER first, then worry about it.
But my opinion is, if they DO offer you the job, take it. If it doesn't fit you, you can move on...

If he bails before the contract is up he will owe the remaining balance. $24k 2 yr contract pro rated at $1k a month.

I think that's just part of the process of rolling the dice if it's not the job where you want to be, but it's what is available. You can't escape that agreement anywhere.

It always makes me laugh when people bash one airline over another. As for going to Gulfstream look at the numbers. Is the initial pay super low? You bet. Is it worse that the others in the long run and big picture? No. Look at it this way and compare. Figuring flying the Monthly guarantee, prop pay to prop pay

AE (before the trouble) that people looked down their nose at GIA from.
1st year- 21600
2nd year- 23300
3rd year- 25900
4th year- 29300
5th year- 30240
total- 130,360

This figures 5 years as a FO because there were no upgrades in site.

GIA
1st year - 16200
2nd year- 17100
3rd year-31500 (you would realistically be a CA by now)
4th year- 33300
5th year- 34200
total $132,300

That is almost $2K more that Eagle and you have three years TPIC. I know these are round numbers and there are other factors but the bottom line is that you need to do what is right for you and look at the big picture and what is best in the long run for you not all the faceless people on an internet forum that want you to do what they did. If you feel you are ready, go for it.

They aren't the only people out there with a training contract. Hell if I owned any kind of company where I was going to hire you and spend money to train you, I would want some sort of assurance that you wouldn't be job hopping as soon as a better deal came along. Two years seems steep to me but hey if you don't like the deal, pull your cards off the table and walk away.

First of all, I am glad Gulfstream got rid of that "PAY TO PLAY..." program.

Now, If you look at it, the Gulfstream deal is not Bad at all, especially for any low time pilot. Where else can such a guy go to get twin turbine time in a 121 environment & get paid as well.

Pay is low but this place is not for experienced pilots, this place is pilots to get experience & move on....

For a Captain, the pay is on the low side. But, the way pilots who were interviewing have stayed strong & made the management drop the "Pay for training & deducting money from each pay check", the same way, slowly that change in Captains pay may also happen where the Captain gets paid what he should be as per Industry comparable for same type of aircraft.

For a newly minted CPL holder with 250-300 TT hrs written in fresh ink & a bare bone multi rating, I think that this is a golden oppertunity.

Even American Eagle has a training contract for 2 yrs for guys with less than 800 TT & 100 Multi, those who were sent for ATP RJ course & paid for by Eagle.

Having a training contract is not wrong, if one doesn't like it, don't have to apply or join at such places.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Gulfstream at all, this is my independent view.....

Thanks for the valuable input guys. Those last 3 post by bcpilot and duksrule really shed some light on some important topics. GIA called and offered me the job on Friday and I'm going to take it..

Do you know if GIA is still hiring? If so could you point me in the right direction? And congrats on the job offer!

The right direction would be the Gulfstream thread in the "regional" forum. Thats where you most up-to-date information would be. They are hiring, however they are swamped and backed up with restructuring and paperwork. From what i've heard, all recent applicants have been asked to hold off until after the holidays. But, after just talking to their chief pilot, they are having a lot of trouble staffing their planes, so I'd say they will continue hiring a few months into 2012, at least.