Airline or Wait/hope
02-22-2012, 05:59 AM
#11
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
With your income, and future income, fly for fun and enjoy it. This is assuming you are enjoying what you are doing. If you're doing great down the road, get your own plane and business, then you would be "the man."
As mentioned above, will your future wife be inboard for a huge change in income and QOL with you.
As mentioned above, will your future wife be inboard for a huge change in income and QOL with you.
02-22-2012, 06:41 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Goodyear Blimp-roap jockey, CSIP, CFII, MEI
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757
I have a bit of a puzzle I've been trying to solve as of late.
- I have a great job with a solid company. I make over $80K a year.
- I will be finishing my MBA in December 2012 and getting married in May 2012.
- I have a CFI/CFI-I/MEI and I am about 400TT/100ME.
- The company I work for owns & operates a nice midsize corp jet.
- There are currently 3 pilots, but one is going to retire in the coming couple years.
- I know the pilots well and get along great with them.
- I know the owner's of the company and get along with their kids (my age).
- The insurable mins for this jet are about 1500TT/1000ME/750Turbine according to the insurance company, but there is a stipulation that the pilots can waive that if they feel the SIC is competent.
I am struggling if I should go and hit the CFI thing hard and get my time and go to an airline, or take the slower route and work toward my ATP while staying at my current job. I am hoping once I have an ATP and maybe 500ME that they'd type me on the jet and I'd do my current job mixed with some pinch-hitter SIC flying on the jet. I know time is everything with the airlines so I hate to wait 5 years and have it not pan out on the Part 91 side. I also hate to leave the stability and money now, but don't want to be blocked out by the HR5900 coming down the pipe for Part 121 so I was hoping to make a decision once I finish MBA school in Dec. Any words of wisdom?
- I have a great job with a solid company. I make over $80K a year.
- I will be finishing my MBA in December 2012 and getting married in May 2012.
- I have a CFI/CFI-I/MEI and I am about 400TT/100ME.
- The company I work for owns & operates a nice midsize corp jet.
- There are currently 3 pilots, but one is going to retire in the coming couple years.
- I know the pilots well and get along great with them.
- I know the owner's of the company and get along with their kids (my age).
- The insurable mins for this jet are about 1500TT/1000ME/750Turbine according to the insurance company, but there is a stipulation that the pilots can waive that if they feel the SIC is competent.
I am struggling if I should go and hit the CFI thing hard and get my time and go to an airline, or take the slower route and work toward my ATP while staying at my current job. I am hoping once I have an ATP and maybe 500ME that they'd type me on the jet and I'd do my current job mixed with some pinch-hitter SIC flying on the jet. I know time is everything with the airlines so I hate to wait 5 years and have it not pan out on the Part 91 side. I also hate to leave the stability and money now, but don't want to be blocked out by the HR5900 coming down the pipe for Part 121 so I was hoping to make a decision once I finish MBA school in Dec. Any words of wisdom?
How about I trade you my right seat in the shiny 70 seat EMB 170, and I will take your MBA, 80K job and wait my turn for the old man to retire and fly their Jet...I might even throw in my next pay check as some spending cash so you can have enough to live off of for the week between embarrassing pay checks...
YGBSM dude! Hang on to that gig and finish your MBA! Get married and CFI on the weekends! Just keep instructing to show them that you are still earning your keep! And try and work something out so you can get in the right seat or ride along somehow. Go wash the jet too from time to time! You gotta want it!
02-22-2012, 07:45 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
The insurable mins for this jet are about 1500TT/1000ME/750Turbine according to the insurance company, but there is a stipulation that the pilots can waive that if they feel the SIC is competent.
You want to fly real bad so you are rationalizing your information and adding best case scenarios to worst case realities. You are not even close to being qualified to fly left seat in any corporate jet. Heck you're not even close to being qualified to be an SIC on any corporate jet.
The whole competent SIC clause sounds like a fantasy to me if it even is really written into the insurance, which unless you've seen it and are interpreting it correctly, is only there for some unknown and very strange reason. I doubt that the current pilots are going to want you no matter how good of a guy you are, to be dragging them down with your total lack of experience. There is nothing worse than trying to get a job done in a professional flight department on a professional airplane and having to play captain and flight instructor at the same time, it's aggravating, it's dangerous and YOU should never put that burden on your passengers or your fellow crew members. At this level you need to be pulling your own weight.
Remember that at the moment you are the customer, the guy in the back, the "boss", your pilots are going to be polite and tell you what you want to hear but most likely when the rubber hits the road you aren't going to be hired as a pilot with your limited background even if you go do 1K worth of touch and goes in a Yankee Clipper you're still not up to snuff.
When I was a corporate pilot I had one of the bosses kids who was attending some Fly Boy U somewhere in Oklahoma inform me that when he graduated he was going to "take" a position in our flight department as a pilot and that we would be happy to mentor him until he met the insurance requirements. I just smiled bit my tongue and agreed with him that this was a great idea. And of course that was never going to happen for multiple reasons.
Personally I think you're dreaming when it comes to this corporate gig even if you do go off to "war" at the regionals things will have changed at your flight department by the time you come back vetted and ready for the job. They will have hired another pilot to have even the slightest hope that this position will still be open and waiting for you is a major pipe dream. The reality of the situation is that you will have quit your job at that company and are now wanting to come back after you've proven that you are a quitter! BUT, BUT, BUT you say I did it only because I wanted to "improve" myself to do what makes me happy! And of course this only proves that you will leave that flight department high and dry the first time something better comes along.
(I'm trying to cut the rationalization here and add some reality.)
Now if you are going to try for a compete career change and drop your current job and go try to be a commercial pilot that's a choice you'll have to make on your own. Personally after 17 years flying for major airlines and having flown corporate before that and done multiple other flying jobs before that I think it's nuts. Which is EXACTLY what I was told multiple time before I jumped in with both feet.
(The following paragraph is to be read in your best Monty Python Quest for the Holy Grail Imitation)
The quest you are about to embark on will be a long hard travel filled with the most perilous of perils and uncertainty and even after you reach your ultimate aviation career quest, whatever that may be, it will still be filled with uncertainty and a total lack of stability. And you'll learn very quickly to distrust, NAY, hate any and all MBA's/ management folks in a big hurry as they are the enemy who don't have any respect for you and will happily destroy your career and financial stability given the chance at every airline. They are thy enemy.
Good luck on your descion fair winged knight of the realm you've been warned!
02-22-2012, 09:37 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 181
Originally Posted by Airhoss
Please don't take this wrong but I am going to introduce as bit of reality here.
You want to fly real bad so you are rationalizing your information and adding best case scenarios to worst case realities. You are not even close to being qualified to fly left seat in any corporate jet. Heck you're not even close to being qualified to be an SIC on any corporate jet.
The whole competent SIC clause sounds like a fantasy to me if it even is really written into the insurance, which unless you've seen it and are interpreting it correctly, is only there for some unknown and very strange reason. I doubt that the current pilots are going to want you no matter how good of a guy you are, to be dragging them down with your total lack of experience. There is nothing worse than trying to get a job done in a professional flight department on a professional airplane and having to play captain and flight instructor at the same time, it's aggravating, it's dangerous and YOU should never put that burden on your passengers or your fellow crew members. At this level you need to be pulling your own weight.
Remember that at the moment you are the customer, the guy in the back, the "boss", your pilots are going to be polite and tell you what you want to hear but most likely when the rubber hits the road you aren't going to be hired as a pilot with your limited background even if you go do 1K worth of touch and goes in a Yankee Clipper you're still not up to snuff.
When I was a corporate pilot I had one of the bosses kids who was attending some Fly Boy U somewhere in Oklahoma inform me that when he graduated he was going to "take" a position in our flight department as a pilot and that we would be happy to mentor him until he met the insurance requirements. I just smiled bit my tongue and agreed with him that this was a great idea. And of course that was never going to happen for multiple reasons.
Personally I think you're dreaming when it comes to this corporate gig even if you do go off to "war" at the regionals things will have changed at your flight department by the time you come back vetted and ready for the job. They will have hired another pilot to have even the slightest hope that this position will still be open and waiting for you is a major pipe dream. The reality of the situation is that you will have quit your job at that company and are now wanting to come back after you've proven that you are a quitter! BUT, BUT, BUT you say I did it only because I wanted to "improve" myself to do what makes me happy! And of course this only proves that you will leave that flight department high and dry the first time something better comes along.
(I'm trying to cut the rationalization here and add some reality.)
Now if you are going to try for a compete career change and drop your current job and go try to be a commercial pilot that's a choice you'll have to make on your own. Personally after 17 years flying for major airlines and having flown corporate before that and done multiple other flying jobs before that I think it's nuts. Which is EXACTLY what I was told multiple time before I jumped in with both feet.
(The following paragraph is to be read in your best Monty Python Quest for the Holy Grail Imitation)
The quest you are about to embark on will be a long hard travel filled with the most perilous of perils and uncertainty and even after you reach your ultimate aviation career quest, whatever that may be, it will still be filled with uncertainty and a total lack of stability. And you'll learn very quickly to distrust, NAY, hate any and all MBA's/ management folks in a big hurry as they are the enemy who don't have any respect for you and will happily destroy your career and financial stability given the chance at every airline. They are thy enemy.
Good luck on your descion fair winged knight of the realm you've been warned!
You want to fly real bad so you are rationalizing your information and adding best case scenarios to worst case realities. You are not even close to being qualified to fly left seat in any corporate jet. Heck you're not even close to being qualified to be an SIC on any corporate jet.
The whole competent SIC clause sounds like a fantasy to me if it even is really written into the insurance, which unless you've seen it and are interpreting it correctly, is only there for some unknown and very strange reason. I doubt that the current pilots are going to want you no matter how good of a guy you are, to be dragging them down with your total lack of experience. There is nothing worse than trying to get a job done in a professional flight department on a professional airplane and having to play captain and flight instructor at the same time, it's aggravating, it's dangerous and YOU should never put that burden on your passengers or your fellow crew members. At this level you need to be pulling your own weight.
Remember that at the moment you are the customer, the guy in the back, the "boss", your pilots are going to be polite and tell you what you want to hear but most likely when the rubber hits the road you aren't going to be hired as a pilot with your limited background even if you go do 1K worth of touch and goes in a Yankee Clipper you're still not up to snuff.
When I was a corporate pilot I had one of the bosses kids who was attending some Fly Boy U somewhere in Oklahoma inform me that when he graduated he was going to "take" a position in our flight department as a pilot and that we would be happy to mentor him until he met the insurance requirements. I just smiled bit my tongue and agreed with him that this was a great idea. And of course that was never going to happen for multiple reasons.
Personally I think you're dreaming when it comes to this corporate gig even if you do go off to "war" at the regionals things will have changed at your flight department by the time you come back vetted and ready for the job. They will have hired another pilot to have even the slightest hope that this position will still be open and waiting for you is a major pipe dream. The reality of the situation is that you will have quit your job at that company and are now wanting to come back after you've proven that you are a quitter! BUT, BUT, BUT you say I did it only because I wanted to "improve" myself to do what makes me happy! And of course this only proves that you will leave that flight department high and dry the first time something better comes along.
(I'm trying to cut the rationalization here and add some reality.)
Now if you are going to try for a compete career change and drop your current job and go try to be a commercial pilot that's a choice you'll have to make on your own. Personally after 17 years flying for major airlines and having flown corporate before that and done multiple other flying jobs before that I think it's nuts. Which is EXACTLY what I was told multiple time before I jumped in with both feet.
(The following paragraph is to be read in your best Monty Python Quest for the Holy Grail Imitation)
The quest you are about to embark on will be a long hard travel filled with the most perilous of perils and uncertainty and even after you reach your ultimate aviation career quest, whatever that may be, it will still be filled with uncertainty and a total lack of stability. And you'll learn very quickly to distrust, NAY, hate any and all MBA's/ management folks in a big hurry as they are the enemy who don't have any respect for you and will happily destroy your career and financial stability given the chance at every airline. They are thy enemy.
Good luck on your descion fair winged knight of the realm you've been warned!
02-22-2012, 02:13 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Cloud surfing
Posts: 492
Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757
I have a bit of a puzzle I've been trying to solve as of late.
- I have a great job with a solid company. I make over $80K a year.
- I will be finishing my MBA in December 2012 and getting married in May 2012.
- I have a CFI/CFI-I/MEI and I am about 400TT/100ME.
- The company I work for owns & operates a nice midsize corp jet.
- There are currently 3 pilots, but one is going to retire in the coming couple years.
- I know the pilots well and get along great with them.
- I know the owner's of the company and get along with their kids (my age).
- The insurable mins for this jet are about 1500TT/1000ME/750Turbine according to the insurance company, but there is a stipulation that the pilots can waive that if they feel the SIC is competent.
I am struggling if I should go and hit the CFI thing hard and get my time and go to an airline, or take the slower route and work toward my ATP while staying at my current job. I am hoping once I have an ATP and maybe 500ME that they'd type me on the jet and I'd do my current job mixed with some pinch-hitter SIC flying on the jet. I know time is everything with the airlines so I hate to wait 5 years and have it not pan out on the Part 91 side. I also hate to leave the stability and money now, but don't want to be blocked out by the HR5900 coming down the pipe for Part 121 so I was hoping to make a decision once I finish MBA school in Dec. Any words of wisdom?
- I have a great job with a solid company. I make over $80K a year.
- I will be finishing my MBA in December 2012 and getting married in May 2012.
- I have a CFI/CFI-I/MEI and I am about 400TT/100ME.
- The company I work for owns & operates a nice midsize corp jet.
- There are currently 3 pilots, but one is going to retire in the coming couple years.
- I know the pilots well and get along great with them.
- I know the owner's of the company and get along with their kids (my age).
- The insurable mins for this jet are about 1500TT/1000ME/750Turbine according to the insurance company, but there is a stipulation that the pilots can waive that if they feel the SIC is competent.
I am struggling if I should go and hit the CFI thing hard and get my time and go to an airline, or take the slower route and work toward my ATP while staying at my current job. I am hoping once I have an ATP and maybe 500ME that they'd type me on the jet and I'd do my current job mixed with some pinch-hitter SIC flying on the jet. I know time is everything with the airlines so I hate to wait 5 years and have it not pan out on the Part 91 side. I also hate to leave the stability and money now, but don't want to be blocked out by the HR5900 coming down the pipe for Part 121 so I was hoping to make a decision once I finish MBA school in Dec. Any words of wisdom?
It is not an easy decision for sure. I am at 865/60 and no calls so far from the "good" regionals because of the 100 multi and as someone stated here, the 1500 rule! (it is approaching and the airlines are gearing up for it looks like). And by the way, this requirement is a good thing!
02-22-2012, 02:49 PM
#17
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Tiki bar
Posts: 2,633
Originally Posted by BaronRouge380
Man, I am almost in the same boat except in my case it's 120k for 20k ...
It is not an easy decision for sure. I am at 865/60 and no calls so far from the "good" regionals because of the 100 multi and as someone stated here, the 1500 rule! (it is approaching and the airlines are gearing up for it looks like). And by the way, this requirement is a good thing!
It is not an easy decision for sure. I am at 865/60 and no calls so far from the "good" regionals because of the 100 multi and as someone stated here, the 1500 rule! (it is approaching and the airlines are gearing up for it looks like). And by the way, this requirement is a good thing!
02-22-2012, 03:27 PM
#18
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Another side note, you better make sure you don't burn any bridges, because you will definitely want to have another job in your pocket for the "if" scenario. Some would probably say its more of a "when" instead of "if"
02-22-2012, 03:30 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
My whole point was do I stick around and see if it happens, or jump to the airlines and fly for a living and be on my merry way.
Ps
There is going to be some hiring coming up in the next five years. And you'll be competing with RJ captains with 10,000 + hours and furloughed American guys with 15K plus and a wallet full of heavy jet type ratings. After those guys all get hired they will start looking to guys like you.
I've been at UAL 15 years and I just BARELY made more than your 80K this year and I am on reserve and I have no control of my schedule. You need to realize what you are asking for here!! I haven't had a weekend or a holiday off in over 5 years and I am one of the lucky ones because most of the guys at my seniority haven't had a weekend off or a holiday off in 10 years. I was lucky enough to have been a pilot instructor during some of the last decade which afforded me some control over my schedule.
Yeah I know it won't happen to you because you're smarter than the rest of us poor slobs and would NEVER go to work for UAL or any company that treats their employees like used condoms and dirty underwear right? Let me tell you loud and clear IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT AIRLINE YOU GO TO WORK FOR, IN 10 YEARS IT WILL BE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT COMPANY. The SWA's and Fed Ex's of today will be the low pay, slave ships of tomorrow. That is just how it works and you have no control over it and you have no way of picking the "right" company because they all change at some point. UAL was the crowned champion of airlines when I got hired here. We had SWA and FedEx guys coming over by the hundreds. I thought I was pretty cool when I got hired here in 1997.
This career whether airline, corporate or whatever is a total crap shoot.
Know that and truly understand it before you jump in. Chances are you WON'T get to the majors and if you do it won't be what you thought it was.
I don't mean to rain on your parade but this is the hard cold truth.
02-22-2012, 05:11 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Putting them back in their place!!!
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757
I have a bit of a puzzle I've been trying to solve as of late.
- I have a great job with a solid company. I make over $80K a year.
- I will be finishing my MBA in December 2012 and getting married in May 2012.
- I have a CFI/CFI-I/MEI and I am about 400TT/100ME.
- The company I work for owns & operates a nice midsize corp jet.
- There are currently 3 pilots, but one is going to retire in the coming couple years.
- I know the pilots well and get along great with them.
- I know the owner's of the company and get along with their kids (my age).
- The insurable mins for this jet are about 1500TT/1000ME/750Turbine according to the insurance company, but there is a stipulation that the pilots can waive that if they feel the SIC is competent.
I am struggling if I should go and hit the CFI thing hard and get my time and go to an airline, or take the slower route and work toward my ATP while staying at my current job. I am hoping once I have an ATP and maybe 500ME that they'd type me on the jet and I'd do my current job mixed with some pinch-hitter SIC flying on the jet. I know time is everything with the airlines so I hate to wait 5 years and have it not pan out on the Part 91 side. I also hate to leave the stability and money now, but don't want to be blocked out by the HR5900 coming down the pipe for Part 121 so I was hoping to make a decision once I finish MBA school in Dec. Any words of wisdom?
- I have a great job with a solid company. I make over $80K a year.
- I will be finishing my MBA in December 2012 and getting married in May 2012.
- I have a CFI/CFI-I/MEI and I am about 400TT/100ME.
- The company I work for owns & operates a nice midsize corp jet.
- There are currently 3 pilots, but one is going to retire in the coming couple years.
- I know the pilots well and get along great with them.
- I know the owner's of the company and get along with their kids (my age).
- The insurable mins for this jet are about 1500TT/1000ME/750Turbine according to the insurance company, but there is a stipulation that the pilots can waive that if they feel the SIC is competent.
I am struggling if I should go and hit the CFI thing hard and get my time and go to an airline, or take the slower route and work toward my ATP while staying at my current job. I am hoping once I have an ATP and maybe 500ME that they'd type me on the jet and I'd do my current job mixed with some pinch-hitter SIC flying on the jet. I know time is everything with the airlines so I hate to wait 5 years and have it not pan out on the Part 91 side. I also hate to leave the stability and money now, but don't want to be blocked out by the HR5900 coming down the pipe for Part 121 so I was hoping to make a decision once I finish MBA school in Dec. Any words of wisdom?
If you do make the jump, no one will ever listen to your gripes about the job and its pay.
