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-   -   Co-pilot not rated in jet (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/part-91-low-time/73881-co-pilot-not-rated-jet.html)

HuggyU2 03-24-2013 03:10 PM

Co-pilot not rated in jet
 
Quick question... out of my area of knowledge.
Hawker jet needs to go on a trip this week.
Co-pilot cannot go.
If I'm not typed in the jet, can I legally occupy the right seat for the trip?
It's being flown Part 91 within the CONUS.

Climbto450 03-24-2013 03:15 PM

Co-pilot not rated in jet
 
Yes. Look up SIC requirements under part 91. Without the SIC or better type you won't be able to go to a lot of international destinations.

galaxy flyer 03-24-2013 03:16 PM

No, but you do need to meet the training requirements on type in FAR 61.55, including 3 take-off and landings, some OEI work and systems/procedures ground instruction. Not, just jump in and go.

GF

Cubdriver 03-24-2013 03:22 PM

Oh boy another SIC-logging question. We specialize in those here. Rick, Wasp, and Noy are a few of our resident experts on this topic.

> Is it a single-pilot certified jet with the PIC single pilot-approved? Call out the type and model for best results.
> If it is a single-pilot certified airplane, does the PIC you are using have that particular endorsement on his type rating? Some jets can be had either or both ways. You need to ask (or look up) what status your captain is.
> Part 91 all legs, right? Part 135 is another animal.
> What does the insurance company say about it? Not the FAA law of course, but still important and often the most important thing. There may be a company- specific Part 91 OpSpec the insurance company requires.
> Is the CA an instructor of some sort?

HuggyU2 03-24-2013 04:03 PM

Thanks very much.

FlyerJosh 03-24-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 1378790)
Oh boy another SIC-logging question. We specialize in those here. Rick, Wasp, and Noy are a few of our resident experts on this topic.

> Is it a single-pilot certified jet with the PIC single pilot-approved? Call out the type and model for best results.
> If it is a single-pilot certified airplane, does the PIC you are using have that particular endorsement on his type rating? Some jets can be had either or both ways. You need to ask (or look up) what status your captain is.
> Part 91 all legs, right? Part 135 is another animal.
> What does the insurance company say about it? Not the FAA law of course, but still important and often the most important thing. There may be a company- specific Part 91 OpSpec the insurance company requires.
> Is the CA an instructor of some sort?

Not an SIC logging question...

It's a question about minimum qualifications to sit in the right seat for a non-type rated FO. OP stated aircraft type is a Hawker.



Presumably this trip has passengers or cargo onboard? (As opposed to flying empty to a MX facility for an inspection?)

Yoda2 03-24-2013 05:22 PM

All that has been said is good info; however with your apparent background, Etc. You might be suprised at how simple this might be accomplished, especially being part 91; it could simply involve the CP or owner, Etc. making a quick phone call to the insurance folks and possibly the Feds. Have them send a fax or some other legal form of correspondence and you could be good to go. Speaking from experience...

Additional... It would be sad if you were otherwise given the green light but were hung up over the civilian high altitude/pressurized aircraft endorsement...

hemaybedid 03-24-2013 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 1378787)
No, but you do need to meet the training requirements on type in FAR 61.55, including 3 take-off and landings, some OEI work and systems/procedures ground instruction. Not, just jump in and go.

GF

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda2 (Post 1378858)
All that has been said is good info; however with your apparent background, Etc. You might be suprised at how simple this might be accomplished, especially being part 91; it could simply involve the CP or owner, Etc. making a quick phone call to the insurance folks and possibly the Feds. Have them send a fax or some other legal form of correspondence and you could be good to go. Speaking from experience...

Additional... It would be sad if you were otherwise given the green light but were hung up over the civilian high altitude/pressurized aircraft endorsement...

As galaxy flyer stated you have to meet the requirements of 61.55. That can be accomplished in a couple of hours, but carries with it the expense of operating the aircraft. Once accomplished you can have the training PIC write an endorsement and take it to the FISDO to get an SIC type on your certificate. The SIC type is NOT required for a CONUS flight however. Just a plus if you want it later on for international.

The second bolded part about a high altitude endorsement doesn't apply, as it is only required to act as PIC.

Yoda2 03-24-2013 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemaybedid (Post 1378886)
As galaxy flyer stated you have to meet the requirements of 61.55. That can be accomplished in a couple of hours, but carries with it the expense of operating the aircraft. Once accomplished you can have the training PIC write an endorsement and take it to the FISDO to get an SIC type on your certificate. The SIC type is NOT required for a CONUS flight however. Just a plus if you want it later on for international.

The second bolded part about a high altitude endorsement doesn't apply, as it is only required to act as PIC.

You are correct, I'm wiped out/need some sleep; shouldn't have chimed in when in this state...

Cubdriver 03-24-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerJosh (Post 1378817)
Not an SIC logging question...

It's a question about minimum qualifications to sit in the right seat for a non-type rated FO.

Come on, FO = SIC here. You can put your pet marmots in the right seat if no other pilot is required, but the question is who is qualified, and if they are qualified the next question should be are they necessary. That's SIC logging, bar none. We have been up and down about people logging time that isn't required to legally fly some airplane on the right side. Maybe Huggy doesn't care about claiming his hours, having flown U2s and all, but he should at least know if he is legal and required in this one. Sounds like if they had a regular guy they need one is this Hawker.

Quote:

....OP stated aircraft type is a Hawker...
Ok, like which one? Some may be single-pilot certified. Are you sure none are?


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