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"Holding out" and social media?

Old 09-23-2016, 09:22 AM
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Default "Holding out" and social media?

Is it true that if I were to post to Facebook or Twitter that I am a commercial pilot the FAA would classify that as "holding out?"
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by NMuir View Post
Is it true that if I were to post to Facebook or Twitter that I am a commercial pilot the FAA would classify that as "holding out?"
Holding out is if you offer to fly someone somewhere. Just saying you passed your check ride or having commercial pilot on business cards does not mean you are holding out.
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:21 PM
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I beg to differ.
A Facebook post that you passed a check ride..fine.
Printing (business) cards with the Jobtitle "Commercial Pilot"....
Let me ask you, what's the purpose of those cards?
For people to stay in touch with you? In case they need what? Help with Windows10?
That's holding out.
Pure and simple.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
I beg to differ.
A Facebook post that you passed a check ride..fine.
Printing (business) cards with the Jobtitle "Commercial Pilot"....
Let me ask you, what's the purpose of those cards?
For people to stay in touch with you? In case they need what? Help with Windows10?
That's holding out.
Pure and simple.
No, printing a business card or posting on a social media site that one is a "commercial pilot" is not holding out.

If one posts on a web site that one is offering transportation from A to B, or advertises airplane rides as a commercial pilot, and is providing the aircraft, then one is holding out.

A commercial pilot may advertise openly as a provider of pilot services, and it is not a violation of the regulation, nor is the pilot guilty of "holding out" as a public conveyance. Stating that one is a commercial pilot is perfectly acceptable. Stating that one is available as a commercial pilot is perfectly acceptable. Printing a business card stating that one is a commercial pilot is perfectly acceptable. Openly advertising that one is willing to provide services as a commercial pilot is perfectly acceptable.

It becomes "holding out" when one is not only offering one's services as a pilot, but providing the aircraft as well.
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Old 09-25-2016, 04:44 PM
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I am under the impression too that you can hold out but you must not ask for more then 49% of the share of the aircraft rental and or fuel. Splitting a ride in half is ok as far as I know.

But it all reality, the commercial pilot on business cards is to pickup chicks am I right?!?! 😎
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Old 09-25-2016, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeyjr1 View Post
I am under the impression too that you can hold out but you must not ask for more then 49% of the share of the aircraft rental and or fuel. Splitting a ride in half is ok as far as I know.

But it all reality, the commercial pilot on business cards is to pickup chicks am I right?!?! 😎
Nope. All occupants must have a common interest in the trip. The FAA also considers your relationship with the passengers. Going on a cross-country with your uncle to a town that he has a meeting in: that might be OK. Going to a town with a stranger you never met before that has a meeting there: not OK.
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Old 09-25-2016, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine View Post
Nope. All occupants must have a common interest in the trip. The FAA also considers your relationship with the passengers. Going on a cross-country with your uncle to a town that he has a meeting in: that might be OK. Going to a town with a stranger you never met before that has a meeting there: not OK.
That's one element of the matter, but it's still holding out if the pilot advertises a conveyance to another location for persons or property and supplies the aircraft, even with a common purpose. For example, a pilot advertises that rides are available to Oshkosh, and puts up flyers at a local college campus. He's renting an airplane and filling the seats. He may use a sheet of paper with tear-off strips or an internet ad; he's still holding out.

He may not actually advertise; when a pilot has a reputation or word of mouth brings in business, it's still been deemed holding out. Holding out is only one element, in turn, when considering the legality of the trip, and every situation must be considered on its own merits.

Splitting a ride in half may be okay, or may not be okay, depending on the circumstances. Pro-rata isn't a protection, it's a compliance, and not under all circumstances.
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Old 09-29-2016, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
I beg to differ.
A Facebook post that you passed a check ride..fine.
Printing (business) cards with the Jobtitle "Commercial Pilot"....
Let me ask you, what's the purpose of those cards?
For people to stay in touch with you? In case they need what? Help with Windows10?
That's holding out.
Pure and simple.
How did you ever come up with the conclusion posting "commercial pilot" on a business card is holding out. I'm a commercial pilot / CFI and you bet it would be on a business card if I ever cared about making any for clients for instruction or scenic flights as "holding out" rules do not apply to this part and does not require an operators license.... Holding out is where you furnish an aircraft hire to the public for anything other than th "exceptions" such as I listed above. The only thing you can do to fringe this is when you fly "for hire" when the client is the sole owner of that aircraft because it is "Private Cariage"
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Old 09-29-2016, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
No, printing a business card or posting on a social media site that one is a "commercial pilot" is not holding out.

If one posts on a web site that one is offering transportation from A to B, or advertises airplane rides as a commercial pilot, and is providing the aircraft, then one is holding out.

A commercial pilot may advertise openly as a provider of pilot services, and it is not a violation of the regulation, nor is the pilot guilty of "holding out" as a public conveyance. Stating that one is a commercial pilot is perfectly acceptable. Stating that one is available as a commercial pilot is perfectly acceptable. Printing a business card stating that one is a commercial pilot is perfectly acceptable. Openly advertising that one is willing to provide services as a commercial pilot is perfectly acceptable.

It becomes "holding out" when one is not only offering one's services as a pilot, but providing the aircraft as well.
There are exceptions to this ruling, flight instruction, scenic routes...
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Old 09-29-2016, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyboyxc91 View Post
How did you ever come up with the conclusion posting "commercial pilot" on a business card is holding out. I'm a commercial pilot / CFI and you bet it would be on a business card if I ever cared about making any for clients for instruction or scenic flights as "holding out" rules do not apply to this part and does not require an operators license.... Holding out is where you furnish an aircraft hire to the public for anything other than th "exceptions" such as I listed above. The only thing you can do to fringe this is when you fly "for hire" when the client is the sole owner of that aircraft because it is "Private Cariage"
AC120-12A

c. physically holding out without advertising where a reputation to serve all is gained is sufficient to constitute an offer to carry all customers. There are many means by which physical holding out may take place. For example, the expression of willingness to all customers with whom contact is made that the operator can and will perform the requested service is sufficient. The fact that the holding out generates little success is of no consequence. The nature and character of the operation are the important issue.
Here's my business card:

Joe Blow
Commercial Pilot


"Call me when you need you car washed *wink*wink*"
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