I was contacted yesterday as well. Sorta forgot about it as an option. As I understand it from refreshing my information today, training times are long at PDT but coming down. Pilots are crediting 75ish hours a month. I haven't seen much on reserve - is it short at PHL?

As far as RTPs go, Piedmont sounds pretty decent and I could drive to work from the Baltimore area. Sounds like, since most people dislike their jobs on APC, being able to drive to work is +++. I am not expecting the flows to bear fruit but I guess it's a "nice to have".

Training times are reducing a bit but expect to touch the real airplane for quite some time.

You will credit about 75 hours a month with 11 days off a month.

It's been "coming down" for years. Look back through the threads here at how long it's been rumored to be improving. Years.

Yet, there are pilots hitting the line now that started the first week of February.

The company always has another excuse ready in the on-deck circle. There's always something around the corner that they claim was unforeseen. Do NOT assume anything here will improve until it's already happened. You will almost always be disappointed.

Pilots are crediting 75 hours/month, because that's the minimum guarantee. They're very often flying less than that.

Yes, reserve is minimal now. However, the company has claimed to be fully staffed with no plans to grow. If that's true, upgrade times are almost sure to go up, and so is the amount of time you spend on reserve.

This is not a desirable place to be right now. Growth has stopped (our seniority list actually got shorter this last month). A new hire today will not have the benefit of growth pushing them up in relative seniority. Expect to be at the bottom of the totem poll at Piedmont far longer than you would elsewhere. To make it worse, most of our organic attrition is from the bottom half of the list, so there's little advancement after the first couple of years here. (Lot of guys leaving before they even hit the line.)

We have the least days off of any regional in the industry and less flying, due to grossly inefficient schedules and the short flights we do. These two in combination means you spend a lot of time sitting in airports or in stale small-town hotels doing nothing, instead of home with your family.

Based on what the airline is saying, the few good reasons to come to Piedmont are fading. Upgrade times will go up. The time to hold a line will go up. The flow is long, and better airlines now have similar flow rates.

Unless something changes, it's very hard to make a case to come to Piedmont. Every pilot complains about their airline or management, but these things aren't just gripes, they're undeniable, objective truths.

Full disclosure: im at PSA. I thought PSA had it bad, but i think the piedmont guys and gals have it worse than us.

I know driving to work sounds nice, and if youre only interested in the RTP then I’m not sure which other airlines offer so i might be way off base, but if youre ok with only crediting 75 hours with only 11 days off a month you could go to several other places and credit 75-85 hours a month with 18 or more days off. Not only credit the same or more each month but do so at a much higher pay rate on top of that. You cant beat driving to work, but i think after a year you might wish you went somewhere else. Think about it, you’re giving up a week off each month. In total That’s 3 whole months of your life every year. Even if you commuted somewhere else and had to get a hotel at the beginning AND end of a trip (which is rare) you’d still be home more while crediting the same or more hours at a higher pay rate compared to going to piedmont and driving.

Seems like the MTP program was turned back on as DEC and Traditional FO recruitment forecast numbers fall well short after the failed TA.

60%+ of folks going through in 2018 training have been having issues, mainly due to inconsistent sim scheduling resulting in long sits between events. Previously the training overlords were fairly benevolent and willing to throw additional sims at struggling folks to get them on to the line. Sometime around August that mentality or the quality of the students changed and attrition has been increasing.

For your own sake, avoid a MTP/MTP NH pairing in sims. PDTs training department hasn’t figured out how to get those to succeed yet and fired the last two MTP folks paired together.

18+ days off a month huh? How’s SAPA been working for you guys lately?

Not defending Piedmont but show me a regional or about any airline where you get 18+ off a month.

Dude, when you actually hit the line just talk to any PSA pilot in the f terminal.

Do your homework (commute/pay/benefits) and do what’s best for you. The pilot shortage is here and real but getting hired by any mainline carrier outside of the flow is still hard. This place isn’t bad.

The PSA FO I sat next to on my way to PHL showed me his schedule... SAP still works there... he had 18days off with 68 block hours and was going to swap out a low credit trip for a high credit trip and keep the same footprint.

Meanwhile at PDT FOs and captains alike get interfaced down to 11 days off with 70-75 block hours.

PSA has PDT beat by a landslide QOL wise with SAP. Reserve is a tossup since PDT has a 90min call out, except for the 2hr callout to a base that doesn’t exist, and PSA has airport standby... at PDT folks will be a lineholder sooner/ longer, but the lines are worse.

Exactly. I cannot wait until flysooner gets to experience the joys of the 48 hour window and gcom. For everyone that doesn't know you get to write an email to scheduling hoping to trade a trip or pick something up. It must be done by 3 pm. They then literally sort all these requests in sby by hand. Then you get to call in around 6 pm and they say sorry they are still working on it. You call back later and they say it was denied for whatever reason, resubmit tomorrow try again good luck. I dream of having SAP.

Republic is giving phl fos right how 15 to 16 days off and 80 to 85 hours pay.. ohhhh. And the hourly rate is better...

The SAP is definitely getting worse. The difference is when SAP worked better we could choose exactly which days we wanted off. Now, processing times are so long it’s a little harder to choose your specific days, but we can still manage 17-19 off. But that’s just at PSA. Research the Endeavor and Republic threads. They’re easily getting 18 days off while crediting over 80 hours a month. Some of them even get over 20 days off a month, although their credit might be closer to 70 hours. If they want 11 days off they’ll be crediting well over 110-120. And that’s not just the senior guys. Even the junior line holders can have those schedules. Not to mention they make close to 20 bucks an hour MORE. I think expressjet and Skywest and following suit with similar schedules.

If you don’t believe me, just research their threads or ask anyone you know at those places. I’m not making this up nor am I exaggerating. It’s not a few special cases. It’s the norm. Some of the Endeavor FOs are making around 100k which is close to if not more than what you’re making as a Piedmont DEC WITH your bonus. And they’re getting 11-12 days off just like you. Again, read their threads.

Well if the grass is so much greener everywhere else why does anyone still work at piedmont?

For the same reason other pilots stick with other substandard airlines ... They don't want to start over at the bottom, they have hopes of getting the call from a major, they already moved to their base and don't want to have to move again, (in our case) they don't want to give up their flow slot, etc.

IOW, it's not that the grass isn't greener, it's that the fence you gotta cross is a b!tch.

If you actually flew the line you would know we are loosing 2017 and 2018 hires to other regionals. You must have drank a huge glass of cool aid at your indoc.

well Guess it ain’t green enough. Doesn’t take that much effort to switch airlines. Especially since seniority doesn’t really do anything for ya at piedmont. Why would someone stay at Piedmont if it’s super easy to make 100k at Endeavor as an FO.

As we all know, senior pilots are still working 11 day off schedules here. That much is true. But, as you should know, there's a lot more that comes with seniority than how many days off you have. Giving up seniority at one airline to be at the bottom of the list at a different airline, even if it's a vastly better airline, comes at a cost.

Transactional costs change the value proposition. Someone that's been around a while has higher transactional costs than someone that's new or hasn't yet joined the company.

Anyone that understands the system should be able to understand why someone might pick seniority at a worse company over no seniority at a better company.

You say you're a DEC, but I'm starting to wonder if you've ever worked for an airline at all. Your argument sounds so naive.

That’s cute coming from someone who appears to have been in the industry less then one year.

That serves my point precisely. Even a cursory understanding of how airlines and the seniority system works is enough to conclude that your argument is weak. I could explain it to a non-pilot, and they'd be able to point out that the longer someone is with an airline, the less beneficial it becomes to change to another one.

Why you fail to grasp the concept, as someone that claims to have already been an airline pilot, is somewhat baffling. I guess we can just chalk it up to cognitive bias.

So why are you still here? What is so great that keeps you from going to another airline? Have you even flown the line yet?

Commutair might be a better option for you living in Baltimore.

Because they gave me 45k up front and captain pay from day 1 and I’ll liekly fly more here on rsv then other airlines.

So why don’t you leave? One year seniority is easy to give up. Then you can go to one of those awesome regionals that pay you 100k and have 18 days off.

That depends on the composition of the pilot pool. For example, 28% of the pilots at Piedmont were hired in the last year. That is a significant amount of seniority.

On reserve you can expect to work every day.. but fly about 25 hours... you'll be doing mdt and abe terminators and yellow cab rides back to phl at midnight... you'll double dead head to pgv to fly one leg back to clt.. dh back to phl tooi fly the terminator to abe, and dh in a yellow cab to phl...

I have a reserve month last april, i head over 45 hours of cabs, and about 20 hours of actual flying..

I'm as senior as it gets now for captains... i has 11 days off in November and credit 83 hours. I'm bidding in the top 30 right now.. that's a 5800 dollar pay check or after taxes and deductions I'm making only 3500...

You can not afford to live in the phl area on the wages...

FYI your pay was against the cba along with the bonus pay...

To put things in perspective, I left Piedmont for a flying job in Afghanistan and I my quality of life has improved tremendously.

Well technically the bonus was paid before I was part of the CBA. As for the CA pay if our union was worth 2 cents they’d have an LOA hammered out to get everyone captain pay from the day they were awarded it. That’s what happened pretty quickly at Envoy in the same situation.

Well the company is fighting the union hand in first on this.. because of the amount of back pay to fos sitting in training right how the company literally doesn't have the money budgeted.. this will be a long battle in mediation.

Technically the bonus was paid to you while u were on property, against the cba.. again this will be in meditation...

I’ve had as much as 21 days off and 65 credit at PSA. That was as a senior FO with great trips, but it’s doable. My record so far is 9 days off and 130 hours of credit without holiday incentive. Some of our pilots are crediting over 150 hours in November with 11 days off from the holiday pay LOA. Our SAP is downright slow and does not work as the contract says it should, but it still works.

That being said, the SAP is not a reason to come to PSA right now as we head into negotiations for PBS in 2019. Not saying it will go away, but the company certainly does not care for it.

Well I truly hope each person gets back pay that was affected. For the bonus don’t think the union will have much to stand on. I literally received the check prior to ever showing up for anything with piedmont and before I was on the seniority list. Not sure how that counts as on property.

Man not for nothing, but as a DEC, you’ve been put through training in a more rapid fashion, received a liveable wage during training based on captain guarantee, and you’ll be put on the line in a somewhat timely manner.

It may seem okay for now but when you’re on the line being extended/displaced/junior manned, and trying to commute on your measaly 11 days off - eventually it adds up.

People aren’t leaving because lateral moves are for chumps. However, I don’t think a lot of us realized how tough these schedules would be. We made our bed but that doesn’t mean we can’t help others avoid making the same mistakes.

If I could do it over again I would have chosen endeavor. Not for the pay, but the schedules. Work / life balance is so much more important than I ever realized before starting at Piedmont. All I cared about was upgrade time. Looking back, it was irrelevant.

Just remember that 45k is a gold ball and chain keeping you here for 2 years. I hope you have a real reason to be positive after your 2 years here man. That would be refreshing to say the least.

Just cause you made your bed doesn’t mean you have to lay in it. Same goes for me. I don’t plan on spending a dime of the bonus money to make sure it’s not the ball and chain you speak of. If it becomes to much for the family I’ll punch out. Despite what some people think I have a pretty good idea what it’s like. In my airline career I’ve never had more then 11 days off in a month and I have never been off of rsv ever. Not saying it’ll be fun but I know what’s coming.