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Piedmont Airlines Regional Airline

hiring and class date

Old 01-30-2019, 08:58 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix21 View Post
Not sure that winter months where flying doesn’t break mmg is the most accurate barometer of how the new schedules will be to declare “min days off being a thing of the past”.

With triple premium pretty much gone there seems to be an increase in folks on property who are financially motivated to apply elsewhere though.
Long time lurker, first time poster.

With staffing supposedly improving, and triple premium all gone, we can at least expect to get junior manned and extended and interfaced less, right? .....Right? There's got to be SOME tangible benefit to not being pitifully understaffed anymore, but that's probably wishful thinking.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:10 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by OversoldCommute View Post
Long time lurker, first time poster.

With staffing supposedly improving, and triple premium all gone, we can at least expect to get junior manned and extended and interfaced less, right? .....Right? There's got to be SOME tangible benefit to not being pitifully understaffed anymore, but that's probably wishful thinking.
You're correct.

However, there is an active effort to reduce the premium pay that the company has to pay out. In other words, there would be less triple premium paid out even if the staffing levels were the same.
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Old 01-30-2019, 05:55 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Lahey View Post
The good news? You can’t be jr manned with 11 days off.

Enjoy that peace of mind the next time you have a sweet min day off line. Edit: which will be next month.



Good point!!
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:13 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by PeteyT View Post
I don't know what the delay is now, but hiring has slowed dramatically. It was 3-4 months when they were hiring as fast as they could, so 6 months is believable.

But please, for your own benefit, consider better options. Do a lot of research before you decide to commit to Piedmont. There's almost no reason to come here. It's a below-average airline in so many ways.
  • The pay is below average. There are first officers at other airlines making more than our captains. Not only are our pay rates low, we have very little soft-pay. If you don't pick up extra flights, expect only 75 hours of pay/month.
  • The flying blows. A lot, if not most, of our flights are less than an hour (wheels up to down). You'll regularly fly to airports with no control tower, or outside of the towers operating hours. Don't be surprised if you have to pick up a clearance by phone.
  • The schedules are absolutely horrible. Expect scheduled deadheads several times a month. Expect long sits out of town. Our schedules are so bad we've simultaneously got the lowest days off in the industry (working 19 days/month) and pathetic block values (65-75 hours block).
  • We're flying old clapped-out airplanes discarded by sister regionals. We were supposed to get brand new 175s, but the FAA decided we couldn't be trusted with them.
  • Most of the management and administrative staff have no business operating a modern airline. They should be running a tire shop.
  • Our technology is dated. (Trading trips is this silly process of sending an email to scheduling, getting no response, and calling them later to see if they decided to grant your request.)
  • The only objective reasons to come here, quickest flow and rapid growth, no longer exist.
Do yourself a favor. You can go elsewhere and make more money, have more days off, fly nicer and more capable airplanes, build time faster, upgrade quicker, and work for a more modern airline.



Thanks a lot! I looked at a couple contracts at the first group of the regionals I am targeting. Crunched some numbers, and actually Piedmont is not at the bottom contract-wise. Granted I did not run all scenarios (like picking up open time, comparing it to regionals with duty/trip rigs, etc )because that is really time consuming.



I heard about the schedules being pretty inefficient as well. Good to see there was someone trying to help improve this. Our CP at my current shop did something great too and I have a lot of respect for him. I hope to do some public service at some point too. Really. At the end of the day there is no perfect regional and the best I can do is pick a place that is workable, try to make that place a little better during my time there, and avoid the really bad ones that can put a dent in my career.


Right now the "really good" regionals seem to have long wait for class dates. I dig new planes, but can't afford to wait a couple months just for that. Worst, the ones that have new planes (at least the two of them where my friends work), had longer reserve time and have been really fat on FOs, >> non line holders flying like 300 hours in a year. Another friend who went to a less popular regional blocked like 900 that year and upgraded at 14 months.



Would like your opinion here though :: where would you go if you were I ? Just want to see what you think. Thanks
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:24 PM
  #25  
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Thanks to folks that have responded. Anybody wants to comment on the safety culture, and how often you are junior manned or extended to the point where it is plain ridiculous? Those are the two things I really dislike.



And when I say extended ---I know regionals that would sometime extend people to the point where they have to DH on day 7.



If you like something even if those are little things, please mention them too. Don't laugh at me, I get it that most of the time it is frustrating, but I can't let myself be bitter and cantankerous, gotta keep looking on the bright side.




(And I know there are places you should not even think about going. I have backed out of some really shady 135 shops, just want to say that so you don't think I am a Kool Aid drinker)


TIA
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:44 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by flyinghedgehog View Post
Thanks to folks that have responded. Anybody wants to comment on the safety culture, and how often you are junior manned or extended to the point where it is plain ridiculous? Those are the two things I really dislike.



And when I say extended ---I know regionals that would sometime extend people to the point where they have to DH on day 7.



If you like something even if those are little things, please mention them too. Don't laugh at me, I get it that most of the time it is frustrating, but I can't let myself be bitter and cantankerous, gotta keep looking on the bright side.




(And I know there are places you should not even think about going. I have backed out of some really shady 135 shops, just want to say that so you don't think I am a Kool Aid drinker)


TIA
I've been here just shy of three years, and I've been junior manned/extended times that made me miss the last commute home or miss plans I had made, but I have never personally been extended to the point I felt it was unsafe. I've heard of others here who have had it much worse though.

DHs into day 7 are not common, but happen occasionally in abnormal circumstances. You'll get your share of 6 day stretches on reserve on with a buildup line, and even as a hard lineholder you'll get 6 day stretches in the interface. Day 7 DHs can happen if maintenance or weather get you stuck on day 6.

Scheduled 7 day stretches happened for a month or two last year, but were technically legal with the way 117 is written. Basically, if your report on day 7 is earlier than your report on day 1 by six hours, it's legal, because you only need a 30 hour rest period in the last 168 hours AT THE TIME OF REPORT. Enough of a stink was made that we never saw it again, thank God, but the company could still feasibly do it again in the future.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:53 PM
  #27  
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"Scheduled 7 day stretches happened for a month or two last year, but were technically legal with the way 117 is written. Basically, if your report on day 7 is earlier than your report on day 1 by six hours, it's legal, because you only need a 30 hour rest period in the last 168 hours AT THE TIME OF REPORT. Enough of a stink was made that we never saw it again, thank God, but the company could still feasibly do it again in the future."


I heard the bwi fsdo came down hard on that interpretation. They read it as any 168 hour period independent of being legal at report. That being said there are many people scheduled with 7 day stretches here.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:52 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by flyinghedgehog View Post
Thanks a lot! I looked at a couple contracts at the first group of the regionals I am targeting. Crunched some numbers, and actually Piedmont is not at the bottom contract-wise. Granted I did not run all scenarios (like picking up open time, comparing it to regionals with duty/trip rigs, etc )because that is really time consuming.

I heard about the schedules being pretty inefficient as well. Good to see there was someone trying to help improve this. Our CP at my current shop did something great too and I have a lot of respect for him. I hope to do some public service at some point too. Really. At the end of the day there is no perfect regional and the best I can do is pick a place that is workable, try to make that place a little better during my time there, and avoid the really bad ones that can put a dent in my career.

Right now the "really good" regionals seem to have long wait for class dates. I dig new planes, but can't afford to wait a couple months just for that. Worst, the ones that have new planes (at least the two of them where my friends work), had longer reserve time and have been really fat on FOs, >> non line holders flying like 300 hours in a year. Another friend who went to a less popular regional blocked like 900 that year and upgraded at 14 months.

Would like your opinion here though :: where would you go if you were I ? Just want to see what you think. Thanks
Somewhat of an unpopular opinion but, If you’re going to a regional with the hopes to go to a legacy, you’ll likely require 5-7 years to get there unless you go to another, intermediate, destination (LCC, ACMI etc.) first. If you are a regional captain for more than 5 years and aren’t a line check airman you become deemed an increased training risk by legacy HR departments and move into that regional lifer category. This is what makes the flow AA offers to their WO pilots so appealing. This also why AA feels it can pay its WO pilots significantly less than other regionals.

Looking at contracts, you need to take the approach of where would you like to be stuck if you become a regional lifer. If that’s too tough of a pill to swallow, at least look at the first 5 years which is in that hiring sweet spot for legacies.

PDTs pay durig the first 5 years (especially once on the captain side) is less than:

Endeavor
Republic
Skywest
Expressjet
Gojet
Trans States
Air Wisconsin
PSA
Envoy

Pay is better than Commutair and barely Better than Mesa, but folks pick Mesa over PDT for better QOL.

If you’re doing a head to head comparison between Piedmont and Commutair since PHL is between IAD and EWR then sure, PDT comes out ahead unless you pass all the wickets of CPP. If that happens you’ll be out the door to United years (about 5-6 of them) before you’ll flow to mainline AA at Piedmont.

If you come to PDT you will most likely be on third year pay before you are a qualified Captain. There’s an outside shot that you may block 100-200hrs before your first year is up with all the training delays. I know folks who were flying the jet for two-six weeks before their probation ended. Even with the new scheduling improvements trips are highly inefficient. Your trips will be on average four days long and you will make no more than an avg of 4hrs credit per day.

I would go to the place that pays you the most and offers you the best quality of life long term. If that place is Piedmont, great but in PHL, PSA, Republic and Frontier each have bases and all would offer better long term QOL and pay. In CLT PSA would likely offer better QOL as a line pilot long term after 3 years unless you got a training center job at PDT and moved to CLT. Flow is now around 10 years minimum at all of the AA Wholly Owned regionals so if you think you’ll be at a regional longer than the first few years (most folks will) then you’ll need to consider what place will be the best for you years 3+ after all the New Hire and retention bonuses have worn off.

Right now there’s up to a five month wait from indoc to the start of ground school. It seems like a lot of NHs are just taking a class date at PDT and leaving when one of the more desirable regionals start class. Unless you’re in dire need of a paycheck, If you’re thinking about doing that, it’s probably better for everyone (including yourself) if you just don’t come to Piedmont at all.

United CPP is a big gamble with pass rates as low as 25% depending on the company thanks to having to pass the Hogan, then the United interview (And I think a final review once you hit your time requirement). That gamble can pay off big and you could be at United in half the time it would take you to flow to AA.

If your choice is between Commutair and PDT, I’d recommend PDT.

Take the ever decreasing benefit of the ever increasing flow times out of the picture, I’d recommend Endeavor, Republic and then Expressjet or maybe Skywest in that order.

Endeavor has an NYC
Republic has PHL NYC and DC bases
XJT has EWR
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:59 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix21 View Post
Somewhat of an unpopular opinion but, If you’re going to a regional with the hopes to go to a legacy, you’ll likely require 5-7 years to get there unless you go to another, intermediate, destination (LCC, ACMI etc.) first. If you are a regional captain for more than 5 years and aren’t a line check airman you become deemed an increased training risk by legacy HR departments and move into that regional lifer category. This is what makes the flow AA offers to their WO pilots so appealing. This also why AA feels it can pay its WO pilots significantly less than other regionals.

Looking at contracts, you need to take the approach of where would you like to be stuck if you become a regional lifer. If that’s too tough of a pill to swallow, at least look at the first 5 years which is in that hiring sweet spot for legacies.

PDTs pay durig the first 5 years (especially once on the captain side) is less than:

Endeavor
Republic
Skywest
Expressjet
Gojet
Trans States
Air Wisconsin
PSA
Envoy

Pay is better than Commutair and barely Better than Mesa, but folks pick Mesa over PDT for better QOL.

If you’re doing a head to head comparison between Piedmont and Commutair since PHL is between IAD and EWR then sure, PDT comes out ahead unless you pass all the wickets of CPP. If that happens you’ll be out the door to United years (about 5-6 of them) before you’ll flow to mainline AA at Piedmont.
thanks for the info. I am also in-between commutair and pdt. Interviewed at pdt and went smooth, but haven't heard anything back. They were implying the flow is 4.5 years average. You are saying more like 10?
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:06 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by standardrate View Post
thanks for the info. I am also in-between commutair and pdt. Interviewed at pdt and went smooth, but haven't heard anything back. They were implying the flow is 4.5 years average. You are saying more like 10?
I got hired in April and they were telling me 3... what a joke.

Figure anywhere from 7-9 years. Anything lower than that is a bonus.
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