Piedmont or Endeavor? Flow vs commute
 

Hello all,

Sorry for another one of the annoying "where should I go" posts, but there is a question I am having a hard time answering, and I am stuck as to which one to pick.

I have researched to death both companies and have job offers from both. I have narrowed down my selection to these two airlines. I'm from the Detroit area so the choice is pretty much down to the flow and quick upgrade at piedmont or no commuting and the $20k bonus at endeavor. The longer upgrade means that after 5 years I would have grossed the same money at either airline.

So my question is, is commuting bad enough to give up the quick upgrade/flow? Or is it worth the commute for a guaranteed job at a major and a less than 2 year upgrade? My lack of experience in the industry makes it hard for me to determine this.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated

Endeavor, don't commute for a regional. If you lived out east I would say go to Piedmont, simple as that.

Commuting sucks, but it isn't the worst thing ever. Most of the time things work out just fine in my experience. If you are willing to accept that every so often you may have to commute in the day before or commute home the day after your duty period, then you'll be okay. It does wear on you though. For instance, I have to wake up at 4:45AM tomorrow to make it into base for my 1100 short call duty period. That sucks. If I lived in base, I would just roll over when the alarm clock says 1100, hit snooze and call scheduling to report in. But that just isn't the case for me. That being said... if it were me personally, I would see how many daily flights there are between DTW or wherever you commute from and where you would be based. If there are several daily flights with early and late schedules, I might consider Piedmont. If not, go with Endeavor. I honestly think no matter where you go there will be movement and upgrades over the next 5 years as the hiring at the legacies and majors picks up.

Even with a flow there is no such thing as a guaranteed job or getting there quickly. Just ask any of the Envoy guys flowing. Quality of life should be your biggest priority and living in base will provide that.

I don't work for either, so here is an unbiased opinion.... Piedmont hands down! You will upgrade faster and if another app is never submitted, you will have a seat at American. Endeavor, you will be under the umbrella of Delta without anything close to a flow. The guaranteed interview with delta is a joke and everybody in the industry knows it. Delta had the chance to offer a better pipeline and were too short sided to initiate it. I guess they don't know much about the interwebz and that people talk.
Good luck my friend.

Funny, can't wait for 80 knots clamp to add his "unbiased" opinion too.

Yeah it might be funny. Gojo,,, you work for Endeavor?
To the op, ya gotta discount PDT and Endeavor folks, they of course just want padding below them.

Honestly I work for Piedmont and I've been called a Cheerleader to get people there. If you can live in base and the upgrade isn't too long I'd say GO to that airline!! Commuting for a Regional Airline can be hell!! While Piedmont does give you 4 hotels a month it still doesn't outweigh the time you can have with your family.
Now if you are single and commuting that's much different then having a family and commuting. I'm not sure of your situation but with a family it's a no brainer. Don't Commute for a regional.

I agree with billy...I also work for pdt but if u have a family. Seriously think about living in base, time away from wife and kids will weight down on you.

I don't care where he goes. I'm hoping to be gone soon. I just don't think his post sounded "unbiased"

Ok Gojo, I wish you the best in getting out.

There are so many of these posts "what regional should I choose"? The bottom line is quality of life, I repeat, DONT COMMUTE FOR A REGIONAL AIRLINE!!! What ever regional gives you more nights at home is the right regional for you!!! With the amount of hiring going forth from the majors it's not going to matter!! Don't fall for the flow through agreements or guaranteed interview snake oil salesman, get in, get your time and get out!!!

#1, unless you have a seniority number with it, a flow is meaningless (just ask about 900 former Mesaba pilots) #2 Commuting blows and wastes huge amounts of time that could be spent at home, and commuting to reserve is nearly impossible. #3 Either Delta removes head from arse and starts moving meaningful amounts of captains out of Endeavor creating quicker upgrades, or this place will watch the FO's with Delta CJO's start to leave, along with the Delta rejects and in short order not be able to hire or even staff what we have and join Comair on the heap of Delta rejects.

LOL, Now you've just admitted the benefits of a flow thru!!! :rolleyes: So I guess the flow isn't meaningless??

There are 13 flights between DTW and PHL each day, but DL and AA depart within an hour of each other, so realistically there are 7 possible options each day.

7 a.m., 10 a.m., noon, 2 p.m., 4 p.m., 6 p.m., and 8 p.m. DTW-PHL

Last flights out of PHL to DTW are 2 6 PM departures and a single 9 PM departure.

I'm a single young guy as well.

Ultimately though, I don't want to spend half my time commuting and end up hating what I do. I just don't know how big of a deal it really is since I have never done it before.

The upgrade at Piedmont is less than 2 years, and everything I read says to get the PIC time as quickly as possible, regardless of the flow. This of course comes at the price of commuting.

Thanks for all the input so far everyone. It is a difficult decision to make without having any experience in the 121 world.

I left Endeavor in May, it was a decent regional. Much better than the old Pinnacle days. Since you a from the DTW area, I would say go to 9E.

You can also fly to some of our outstation bases from DTW. MDT comes to mind. Commuting isn't great but with some planning it's not the horror you hear about. Very generous commuter clause. We get excellent mainline boarding priority at PDT by time of check in. No seniority bull. Take it from a 2-3 leg commuter for 3.5 years, it's worth it here. We have a good bunch of cross-country commuters here too.

Only current base with flights from DTW is MDT with 4 daily flights on Delta. 9 a.m., noon, 4 p.m. and 10 p.m. to MDT. But the last flight to leave MDT is a 5:30 p.m. flight

I'd try for PHL when it opens if I choose to go to PDT

Where did you move on to if you don't mind me asking?

Started with Spirit in May

I am DTW based but live in Philly for Endeavor. FWIW the commute isn't that bad going my way. I get up at 6:30am to commute to my first day of reserve in Detroit, and am always back at my door by 1030pm my last day. I shouldn't be on reserve much longer, and I will be NYC based pretty soon. Good luck with your choice. Endeavor seems as good a place to be as any right now. Everyone seems optimistic. I was on military leave for the dark days the last few years. Honestly though, don't commute if you can help it. By far the biggest factor in choosing a regional, like everyone else here says. If you lived in Philly I would say go Piedmont hands down, even though I want you below me on the seniority list at Endeavor :-D

PM me if you have any questions about Endeavor.

Also, our VP of flight operations called to wish me a happy birthday the other week. I certainly thought that was kind of nice...

Looks like the regionals are really doing their best to dish out their best company coolaid! From signing bonuses, unheard of pop up ads, hotel stay for commuters, birthday phone calls......................... Why don't they just pay a living wage for a professional pilot? Commuting gets old really fast as does the bag drag that goes with it. Don't do it unless you have no choice. When I was in the ANG many moons ago, I used to commute (2 leg minimum, sometimes 3) to my Guard slot. Mind you this was only once a month. I gave up after 3 years. But again, everyone has their own threshold. I can't tell you what a good feeling it is to get done with a 4 day and to be home within an hour or less and sadly hear about someone having to wait for the next flight (or miss one by just a few mins).

Go to Piedmont so you can fly planes that were removed from another ALPA company's fleet. I'm sure it won't be a complete disaster when a bunch of prop boat drivers all have to learn to fly a real plane at the same time. Plus they voted yes to a **** contract to undercut other pilots, so you'll have the respect of all your airline peers!

What about republic? They have even shinier jets than endeavor or piedmont (some even have new plane smell!), and none of them were acquired on the backs of other pilots. Indy and columbus are basically detroit, right? I even hear Bedford might be giving those guys one swell contract tomorrow!!!

I don't care about shiny jets. I would fly a Cessna if someone paid enough money had had good enough QOL. The decision isn't about equipment, it's about commuting vs. faster upgrade/flow.

Sounds like most people recommend avoiding the commute by going to Endeavor.

Thanks for those of you who gave advice!

Great post...real magic there..Boat Rower. You're just wrong so why don't you row your boat off Niagara Falls.

This is an easy answer for me. Avoid commuting and pick a company that has a base where you live if there is one. Your QOL will be much, much, much better (although bases seem to open and close a lot for many companies these days).

I'm with XJT, did the whole commuting thing when I first started and it was literally making me sick always being on the go, and only being home 6 days a month since you would usually have to report to base the day prior and leave the day after. I ended up switching bases and moving into that base, and it feels like a whole new job.

Trust me, pick a company you can see yourself having the best QOL. I wouldn't sweat the upgrades-if you want to go to a major, most likely you'll be there in the next few years anyways with the retirements.

Real plane=?????? I'm guessing your saying a more technological get is a real plane? So your automation is what makes you better? Well if your right I guess i'll just have to say I'm happy to know I'll have 5 years at American before many other new hires out there since I'll flow straight through at Piedmont. You know it gives me extra time to learn a real plane.

I am at 9e so I am biased. However I really don’t care if people come below me because I am sitting on a CJO. So with that said think what you want about the following. Since you live in DTW I would say go 9e. Looking at current upgrade times does not mean future upgrades will be the same. Off course bases can change too but they change less often than a quick upgrade. You also have to look around at all the captains that do not have their doors being knocked down my Majors to hire them. So just because you can check TPIC box it doesn’t mean a job follows that.

Granted you would have a flow, I do not know much about their flow. I had a flow once and then we were sold and they said no more flow. But it is the same way they could say no more interview for you with Delta. My guess is if you are in DTW and plan to stay DTW you will eventually want to go to Delta. Take a look at the stats for what % of new hires from regionals have been from 9e. Next year we also have an increase of people moving there.

My opinion is that you know you will get a 20k bonus and you know you will get home based. With piedmont you know you have a flow but you do not know when you will upgrade.
Good luck wherever you decide to go.