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Old 06-08-2018, 09:53 AM   #1  
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Default Anti-social personality disorder

Ok guys:

Here it is...years later. Flying professionally has gone by way of the dinosaur for me. Diagnosed with ASPD back in 2012. From what I understand ASPD is a permanent disqualifier. What are my chances of at least getting a 3rd Class medical w/limitation if there is such a thing..(SI). Really just wanna get my PPL w/Instr for ASEL and enjoy pleasure flying.

Let her rip!


atp

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Old 06-08-2018, 10:07 AM   #2  
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Bummer.

Don't really know about that one.

But I had an FO recently who had some sort of obstructive defiant disorder.

I tried to find an AME/consultant who specializes in stuff like this.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:19 PM   #3  
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Hey rickair! Yep, I made the mistake of responding to the Chief Psychiatrist's note of my "law enforcement entanglements being drug related" as being ludacris and absurd". Boy was that the wrong answer/response. Hindsight is 20/20 vision!

At any rate, I'm going to petition him and ask if he'll review my file for the aforementioned request. Hopefully, he'll approve it. We'll see.

Good to hear from you.


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Old 06-12-2018, 07:40 AM   #4  
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And to get a CFI you have to have a commercial.
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:51 PM   #5  
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The diagnosis itself is not necessarily disqualifying, but the history that established that diagnosis may be:

Decision Considerations - Aerospace Medical Dispositions
Item 47. Psychiatric Conditions - Personality Disorder
The category of personality disorders severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts refers to diagnosed personality disorders that involve what is called "acting out" behavior. These personality problems relate to poor social judgment, impulsivity, and disregard or antagonism toward authority, especially rules and regulations.

A history of long-standing behavioral problems, whether major (criminal) or relatively minor (truancy, military misbehavior, petty criminal and civil indiscretions, and social instability), usually occurs with these disorders. Driving infractions and previous failures to follow aviation regulations are critical examples of these acts.

Certain personality disorders and other mental disorders that include conditions of limited duration and/or widely varying severity may be disqualifying. Under this category, the FAA is especially concerned with significant depressive episodes requiring treatment, even outpatient therapy. If these episodes have been severe enough to cause some disruption of vocational or educational activity, or if they have required medication or involved suicidal ideation, the application should be deferred or denied issuance.

Some personality disorders and situational dysphorias may be considered disqualifying for a limited time. These include such conditions as gross immaturity and some personality disorders not involving or manifested by overt acts.

....

So yeah, if you actually seriously screwed up in life and demonstrated that you don't give a fly in' $;:@ if you hurt people, your odds aren't great. If you simply PO'd a single shrink, heck, 80% of shrinks would have been seriously PO's to find that you had voted for the winner in the 2016 presidential election, some willing to testify in court that you are sociopathic for doing so.

Besides, everyone is entitled to a second opinion.
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Old 06-14-2018, 04:05 AM   #6  
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Excargodog:

LMAO! Never got a definitive explanation such as yours. It really isn't a laughing matter and I do take this process seriously.

Looking back, most indiscretions occurred starting just after my wife and I separated in 2003. During my quest for medical cert, I completed 3 HIMS evaluations with the latter two recommending certification. In addition, I had secured a HIMS AME out of KTMB who was willing to work with me. I really thought that I was on my way. Achieving a lifelong desire/dream meant everything to me. A profound sense of accomplishment. The FAA in DC/OKC had/has all of this information. When I got the denial letter from Drs. Chesanow, De Voll, and Tilton, man....I was crushed. Professionally, all I've ever wanted to do was become an airline pilot. If by chance the decision is reversed, in reality, I'll probably only have about 7-10 years of flying professionally, whether 91, 135, or 121. Preferably 91..."fly till you die". It'd be the best 7-10 years of my life!

I certainly appreciate and respect your explanation. Looking back, it's a bitter pill to swallow, however, I must and have taken ownership of all that's happened. In the words of the 9th step..."I will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it." Being transparent though, there are some things in the past that I do regret, but can't go back to change. All I can do is to continue to learn from past mistakes (not to be repeated) and build on my successes.

Thanks for the genuine response.


Marcus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
The diagnosis itself is not necessarily disqualifying, but the history that established that diagnosis may be:

Decision Considerations - Aerospace Medical Dispositions
Item 47. Psychiatric Conditions - Personality Disorder
The category of personality disorders severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts refers to diagnosed personality disorders that involve what is called "acting out" behavior. These personality problems relate to poor social judgment, impulsivity, and disregard or antagonism toward authority, especially rules and regulations.

A history of long-standing behavioral problems, whether major (criminal) or relatively minor (truancy, military misbehavior, petty criminal and civil indiscretions, and social instability), usually occurs with these disorders. Driving infractions and previous failures to follow aviation regulations are critical examples of these acts.

Certain personality disorders and other mental disorders that include conditions of limited duration and/or widely varying severity may be disqualifying. Under this category, the FAA is especially concerned with significant depressive episodes requiring treatment, even outpatient therapy. If these episodes have been severe enough to cause some disruption of vocational or educational activity, or if they have required medication or involved suicidal ideation, the application should be deferred or denied issuance.

Some personality disorders and situational dysphorias may be considered disqualifying for a limited time. These include such conditions as gross immaturity and some personality disorders not involving or manifested by overt acts.

....

So yeah, if you actually seriously screwed up in life and demonstrated that you don't give a fly in' $;:@ if you hurt people, your odds aren't great. If you simply PO'd a single shrink, heck, 80% of shrinks would have been seriously PO's to find that you had voted for the winner in the 2016 presidential election, some willing to testify in court that you are sociopathic for doing so.

Besides, everyone is entitled to a second opinion.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:42 AM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpwannabe View Post
Excargodog:
The FAA in DC/OKC had/has all of this information. When I got the denial letter from Drs. Chesanow, De Voll, and Tilton, man....I was crushed. Professionally, all I've ever wanted to do was become an airline pilot. If by chance the decision is reversed, in reality, I'll probably only have about 7-10 years of flying professionally, whether 91, 135, or 121. Preferably 91..."fly till you die". It'd be the best 7-10 years of my life!

I certainly appreciate and respect your explanation. Looking back, it's a bitter pill to swallow, however, I must and have taken ownership of all that's happened. In the words of the 9th step..."I will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it." Being transparent though, there are some things in the past that I do regret, but can't go back to change. All I can do is to continue to learn from past mistakes (not to be repeated) and build on my successes.

Thanks for the genuine response.


Marcus
(atpwannabe)
So take a chance. Make the phone call. Call 202-267-8035 and ask for Dr Penny Giovanetti. Tell her what happened. Tell her the truth, be humble, and tell her the changes you've made in your life since then. She can pull up the old records. She can tell you if you have a shot and if so how to put in an appeal based upon the subsequent history. Because it IS the history that matters. If you have changed from that time, and have your act together, and you can safely fly, they can certainly make it happen. You just need to convince them.

It won't be quick and it may not be cheap, but the whole world loves a reformed sinner. Makes us all feel there is hope for us too. So it just may happen.

But Penny's a great gal. She'll tell you if she thinks you have a reasonable shot. What the hell, it's only a phone call.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:03 PM   #8  
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So youíve been at it for 6(!) years....
Iím thinking that the writing is on the wall.
Plenty of aviation related jobs that do not involve a medical and flying.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:51 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
So youíve been at it for 6(!) years....
Iím thinking that the writing is on the wall.
Plenty of aviation related jobs that do not involve a medical and flying.
True; however in that scenario getting past the 10 year background check is just as daunting. Put it like this, if the FAA did certify me, basically stating that they believe that I've turned the corner, then, I'm sure there is at least one outfit out there that would give me the opportunity.

I plan on following up on Excargodog's suggestion. If Dr. Giovanetti is able to help, then, I should be ok.


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Old 06-16-2018, 08:56 AM   #10  
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Iím not understanding something.
In Aug 2012 youíve posted that you were ďclearedĒ by the FAA
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/69570-got-call.html
Now youíve stated that you havenít.
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