rickair7777

If a "health professional" tells you that you have a problem, you have a problem (especially if it's in writing somewhere). No need to get it from a panel of board certified specialist psychiatrists.

You might be able to quibble about reasonable doubt to a jury, and get away with your freedom. But your certs will be shredded for sure.

Hetman

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PG2iSRPF8K0

JohnBurke

You're introducing stupidity and far too much melodrama. There's no jury involved here, nor will there be.

Criminal prosecution in connection to FAA enforcement is EXTREMELY rare.

A therapist might take money for talking it out, but isn't qualified to make a clinical diagnosis. Attending a therapist becuase someone feels that they have a condition does not mean they've been diagnosed with it. This is far from semantics.

You can claim you have cancer all you want based on internet expertise and self-diagnoses, but this does not mean you have it. One may claim a mental condition or seek help for a perceived condition, but this does not mean that one has been determined to have it, and seeing a masseuse, marriage counselor, diet advisor, or shaman doesn't mean one has a condition that's being or has been treated by a "health professional." Far more than a semantic difference.

Bottom line, don't cop to conditions with which you haven't been diagnosed.

All the sky-is-falling melodrama here is misplaced.

rickair7777

"Talked to therapist for anxiety" vs. clinical diagnosis may be a debatable grey area. I'm pretty sure I know what the FAA would say, although you might win on appeal (civil or otherwise). It would come down to your own personal tolerance for risk in the grey area.

But what was surprising, even alarming, to me was how aggressively they went after folks claiming disability for conditions which they denied to the FAA. Those cases are very clear cut of course, since not only is the condition documented, the perp had to apply for disability, and then gets a monthly check. So he can't claim he didn't know about the diagnosis, or forgot about something from the distant past. The moral of the story is that the longer the paper trail, the higher the risk if you don't disclose.

JohnBurke

You're talking primarily about those who claimed disability and social security, or who claimed military disabilities and failed to disclose them on FAA paperwork. Not remotely related or similar to the subject of this thread.

Undiagnosed conditions are just that; if one wishes to be an idiot and self-diagnose, then disclose that self-diagnosis and be restricted or delayed with medical certification, by all means; it's one's right to be stupid.

Otherwise, don't volunteer and stipulate to that which is not known. It's somewhat like taking evasive action for traffic when the location of that traffic is unknown. Not too bright.

rickair7777

I absolutely agree don't report something based on self-diagnosis that you wouldn't have to report otherwise. But talking to a medical professional (of any sort) is blurring the line to say the least. 30 years ago, yeah I know what you're saying. But there's a digital paper trail today. For everything.

JohnBurke

There was a case that made the news not too many years past in which a pilot in Anchorage made a comment to a reporter, in an interview, that each time he flew over his son's graveyard, he said a silent prayer for his son.

The FAA got hold of that, said it was unnatural for him to be mourning so long after his son's death, and therefore a medical issue; the Administrator moved for an emergency suspension of his medical certificate. The FAA considered this prima facia of a self-admission.

Sex therapists, marriage counselors, whatever...if it's undiagnosed, it's undiagnosed, and there are a LOT of people in today's medicalized society who like to hang out a shingle that suggest they're a medical professional...doesn't make it a diagnosed condition, and to cop to an undiagnosed condition is idiotic, especially where the FAA is concerned.

Nearly every person has pondered their mortality, their death, and even the concept of suicide. It doesn't make them suicidal. One would have to be a bloody idiot to put that on a medical application, however, because of the ramifications. There are a lot of things one ought not cop to. Anxiety? Maybe someone is feeling stressed out. They find someone to talk to, maybe a counselor, therapist, holy man, cat trainer, dominatrix, or frisbee professional. Whatever floats their boat, makes them feel better. That doesn't mean it needs to be reported as anxiety on the medical exam.

CFI2766

Exactly! Anybody who claims to have never had any anxiety symptoms at any point in their life is lying (or a robot).

BobZ

Reading apc is alone enuf to cause it.

Excargodog

The federal government in general considers a psychiatric diagnosis by any of the following categories of providers to be an ‘actual’ diagnosis. Not necessarily a correct diagnosis, that issue can be argued in a court of law and healthcare providers do make errors in diagnosis, but an ‘actual’ diagnosis for “have you ever..?” reporting purposes:

General practitioners
Nurse practitioners
Physicians’ assistants
Psychiatrists
Clinical psychologists
Clinical social workers
Clinical nurse specialists