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TiredSoul 10-21-2020 01:48 AM

On a bit of a tangent here.
The instrument rating requires more skill and fine motor skills then the Private pilot.
In the Part 91 training world we train to proficiency. The only limitation is the customers (your) budget.

In the Part 135 and 121 training world there are two important differences.
You are no longer the customer, your (future) employer is.
As a result there is no ‘training to proficiency’.
There is a fixed amount of groundschool and there is a prior agreed to limited number of simulator training events.
Lets say that number is 9. You will be expected to be check ride ready in these 9 sessions, come hell or high water.
Your type rating training center may contact your Chief pilot to negotiate one or two extra training events but that’s it, you’re out.
Has little to do whether you can or cannot eventually meet the grade. It has all to do with doing it in the allotted time.
Food for thought.

BigKetchup 10-21-2020 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by TiredSoul (Post 3147894)
There is more here.
Hate to break it to you....you’re already at double the national average for a Private.
If your checkride gets postponed a couple of weeks for inclement weather or aircraft and DPE availability you don’t suddenly have 50-70 hrs more. How much of your 150hrs is solo?
If you continued solo timebuilding then that’s ok.
If you somehow needed that much extra training with an instructor it may indicate a problem. Might be a problem with your vision that has never been identified.
Do you have issues with fine motor skills due to nerve damage? The keyboard/mouse issue is a cause of concern.
I have personally flown with three students that all had vision in only one eye. They all passed Private pilot checkrides in the 45-55hr range.

Well, I didn't want to digress but there was a time I didn't like my instructors because they'd constantly hit me over the head with things that, looking back, are largely their subjective opinions on how to do things "right" and were trying to get me to think exactly like them, which I think is a disservice. The analogy I give is it's like basketball camp: a coach can teach you how to dribble, pass, block, shoot, but ultimately he has to give you the ball and let you go make sense of it on your own and connect the dots in your own way. Aviation is as much about sensory perception as it is about following procedures and therefore is largely subjective and varies from person to person. My instructors never acknowledged this and felt their way was universally correct. They never gave me a full game plan either. That's why I enjoyed solo time so much: I could get in the plane, relax, and finally enjoy the experience. It was more affordable, and since you mentioned it, it was also done in the name of solo time building, but if I had known about my rights as a safety pilot, I would have plowed through it much sooner.

Again, my limitation never got in the way of getting acclimated with the aircraft; rather, I just enjoyed flying solo and figured I would be building time.

BigKetchup 10-21-2020 07:11 AM


Originally Posted by TiredSoul (Post 3147898)
On a bit of a tangent here.
The instrument rating requires more skill and fine motor skills then the Private pilot.
In the Part 91 training world we train to proficiency. The only limitation is the customers (your) budget.

In the Part 135 and 121 training world there are two important differences.
You are no longer the customer, your (future) employer is.
As a result there is no ‘training to proficiency’.
There is a fixed amount of groundschool and there is a prior agreed to limited number of simulator training events.
Lets say that number is 9. You will be expected to be check ride ready in these 9 sessions, come hell or high water.
Your type rating training center may contact your Chief pilot to negotiate one or two extra training events but that’s it, you’re out.
Has little to do whether you can or cannot eventually meet the grade. It has all to do with doing it in the allotted time.
Food for thought.

I will keep that in mind, thank you. I do have 1,300 more hours to go and can use that time to perfect it.

firefighterplt 10-21-2020 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by BigKetchup (Post 3146973)

I'm left wondering, however, what evidence do they need to the contrary? None of my medical specialists, flight instructors, or DPE have any concerns with my ability to safely operate an aircraft.

Get an AME who is engaged in the process and will advocate for you. And yes, it will likely take a while.

It just isn’t that simple. CAMI doesn’t work based on the medical equivalent of ‘good guy’ letters (I’ve examined/flown with him and I have no concerns). The specialists aren’t flight surgeons trained in flight medicine, so they aren’t trained in knowing how particular physiological issues can impact a pilot in the aerospace environment. CAMI will provide a list of particular tests/labs/etc that they want. Your specialists will perform the requisite tests, and may provide a summary letter. The tests are all compiled by your AME and sent to CAMI. The CAMI flight surgeons will review all that data, and make a determination. They are judge/jury/executioner. In the event that you put a jet in the dirt due to a medical issue, they will be the ones standing tall to defend issuing your certificate—not your specialists. As such, they have the final say, and they prefer to interpret all the data themselves.

Just how it works, friend. As someone has been through their process a few times, you either play ball or stand zero chance of ever flying again—it is VERY binary, for better or worse.

BigKetchup 10-21-2020 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by firefighterplt (Post 3147990)
Get an AME who is engaged in the process and will advocate for you. And yes, it will likely take a while.

It just isn’t that simple. CAMI doesn’t work based on the medical equivalent of ‘good guy’ letters (I’ve examined/flown with him and I have no concerns). The specialists aren’t flight surgeons trained in flight medicine, so they aren’t trained in knowing how particular physiological issues can impact a pilot in the aerospace environment. CAMI will provide a list of particular tests/labs/etc that they want. Your specialists will perform the requisite tests, and may provide a summary letter. The tests are all compiled by your AME and sent to CAMI. The CAMI flight surgeons will review all that data, and make a determination. They are judge/jury/executioner. In the event that you put a jet in the dirt due to a medical issue, they will be the ones standing tall to defend issuing your certificate—not your specialists. As such, they have the final say, and they prefer to interpret all the data themselves.

Just how it works, friend. As someone has been through their process a few times, you either play ball or stand zero chance of ever flying again—it is VERY binary, for better or worse.

That's understandable.

As a side note, I just sent in a fax requesting a SODA. Not sure why they couldn't have just told me to request one off the bat.

firefighterplt 10-21-2020 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by BigKetchup (Post 3147996)
That's understandable.

As a side note, I just sent in a fax requesting a SODA. Not sure why they couldn't have just told me to request one off the bat.

Good! Stay persistent. As someone who has dealt with this red tape, it sucks—but it is worth it.

TiredSoul 10-25-2020 01:38 AM


Originally Posted by BigKetchup (Post 3147962)
Well, I didn't want to digress but there was a time I didn't like my instructors because they'd constantly hit me over the head with things that, looking back, are largely their subjective opinions on how to do things "right" and were trying to get me to think exactly like them, which I think is a disservice. The analogy I give is it's like basketball camp: a coach can teach you how to dribble, pass, block, shoot, but ultimately he has to give you the ball and let you go make sense of it on your own and connect the dots in your own way. Aviation is as much about sensory perception as it is about following procedures and therefore is largely subjective and varies from person to person. My instructors never acknowledged this and felt their way was universally correct. They never gave me a full game plan either. That's why I enjoyed solo time so much: I could get in the plane, relax, and finally enjoy the experience. It was more affordable, and since you mentioned it, it was also done in the name of solo time building, but if I had known about my rights as a safety pilot, I would have plowed through it much sooner.

Again, my limitation never got in the way of getting acclimated with the aircraft; rather, I just enjoyed flying solo and figured I would be building time.

You do not hold a Private certificate and you know better then your instructors.
Thats what I’m reading.
Thats a problem.
Plus you don’t see any issue with your medical deficiencies.
Thats another problem.

What are your “rights as a safety pilot” ?

BigKetchup 10-25-2020 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by TiredSoul (Post 3149712)
You do not hold a Private certificate and you know better then your instructors.
Thats what I’m reading.
Thats a problem.
Plus you don’t see any issue with your medical deficiencies.
Thats another problem.

What are your “rights as a safety pilot” ?

I think this is going out of scope. Please private message me if you'd like to continue this discussion.

Excargodog 10-25-2020 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by BigKetchup (Post 2928983)
Thanks for the fast responses. To answer your questions, I was in a car accident 28 years ago and it left me with near sighted double vision - both of which have been corrected and I'm now at 20/20 - and the peripheral handicap. But my ophthalmologist have been very clear in stating that it's NOT progressive and will not get worse over time.

So exactly what was the nature of the injury In the car accident of 28 years ago? In order for it to have caused Visual field cuts in both eyes, that would likely have had to be a central brain injury, I would assume, and not just eye trauma? And how was the near sighted double vision corrected?

And how was all that medical history missed on your initial flying physical?

BigKetchup 10-25-2020 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3149828)
So exactly what was the nature of the injury In the car accident of 28 years ago? In order for it to have caused Visual field cuts in both eyes, that would likely have had to be a central brain injury, I would assume, and not just eye trauma? And how was the near sighted double vision corrected?

And how was all that medical history missed on your initial flying physical?

I disclosed the car accident, double vision and nearsightedness, but I didn't know about my peripheral vision until I took a test much later. It never came up in any part of flight training, solo time or the checkride. I simply hit my head against a hard surface and they had to do a craniotomy. But I did tell them about all this.

The other symptoms were corrected through surgery.


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