208Dreams

Good Afternoon.

I've been reading and learning a ton here, and figured might be time to share some, and ask a question as well.

I'm about 19 years into a military career, not in an aviation field. And I've decided my next career will be flying. I took a few flight lessons, which I loved. But then I put that on hold, figuring I should get my medical squared away before investing a ton of time and money into training, if I wouldn't pass the medical anyway.

Story time: when I was 8, my parents found me exhibiting symptoms of what they thought was a seizure on a Sunday morning. I had been watching cartoons, as kids do on Sunday mornings before church. They took me to the hospital. By the time they got me there, I was no longer doing whatever they assumed was a seizure. Doctors ran some tests, such as an EEG, MRI, etc. But I never received a diagnosis and wasn't put on medications. And I never had another seizure. I've called the hospital where they took me, and they don't keep records that far back. Perhaps I should have kept all this to myself, since there isn't records, but I'm not someone who is going to hang my career on a lie of omission.

Fast forward to 2018, and I'm attempting to get a flight physical thru the Air Force, so that I could retrain into an aircrew/back end career field. They sent me to see a neurologist for EEG and consult, and did a brain MRI. All was well, and the Air Force gave me a permanent waiver for that condition, stating something like "after so long, risk of additional seizures is equal to the general populace, and the risk is aeromedically acceptable." And then the career change fell thru, but I had learned from the process.

Last June, I had my appointment with my AME. As expected he deferred me to FAA. FAA asked for the same things the Air Force had asked for, plus any records, treatment history, medication history, etc. None of that stuff exists, because there wasn't any of that, and what did occur, the hospital doesn't have record of. So I did all that stuff and sent in the paperwork. After some months, I got my First Class Medical, no limitations. Awesome.

I'm posting all this so that anyone who may have something similar in their medical history can see how it worked out - first class medical, no limitations, no special issuance. Your mileage may vary. Happy to answer questions about the process, if you're in a similar boat.

Now the question: Should I expect my AME to defer me every single year when I renew, and have to re-accomplish the neuro consult/EEG/MRI every time I renew my medical? Or because FAA issue the certificate, and nothing has changed since they did so, can my AME issue on the spot?

Thanks for your help and all the info this community provides.

rickair7777

Assuming your 1C was not a Special Issuance (SI) medical, you should not have to defer or repeat any peperwork.

It may be to your benefit to stick with the same AME as long as practical, since a new AME might defer it due to lack of any documentation and let FAA OKC approve it based on their previous approval. I had something like that happen once years ago. You'd think if you show them a copy of your previous application and medical where it was reported that would be sufficient

If you switch AME's, contact the new one well in advance and discuss the issue.

Excargodog

Best thing that could have happened to you. Somewhere there is a waiver package in your USAF medical records with a big “APPROVED” on it stamped by the USAF Surgeon General’s office telling what they did and why they did it and what their reading of the situation was. That is golden. I don’t know if you got a Special Issuance or not, but if you did you got a notification letter with it telling precisely what the follow up requirements (if any) were, but get and keep a copy of that Air Force waiver package. Barring a future seizure (and almost 4% of people will develop a seizure in their lifetime) it is unlikely that you’ll have serious trouble because of your history. That being said, don’t go out if your way to do anything that might provoke a seizure like:

and as a SCUBA guy I’d add into that diving to depths warranting decompression. And for damned sure not to depths requiring exotic breathing mixtures.try and avoid looking at light shows, strobes, and looking up through rotor blades at lights as well.

208Dreams

Thanks for that - I'll stick with the same AME. For now. I'm moving out west this summer, so I'll have to find a new one, but for this renewal, I can go to the same guy.

When talking with a new AME, what documentation might he want, in order to see that FAA has issued the 1C? Just my certificate showing now limitations? Maybe include the paperwork FAA requested and I provided?

Solid advice, thanks. I'm definitely keeping a copy of the approved waiver from the AF side of things. I included that with my response to OKC. It wasn't asked for, but I assume it could only have helped.

No special issuance or instructions other than something like "if your symptoms change, notify your AME." Hopefully I'm good to go, and won't have to repeat the full neuro workup every year (and every 6 months, here in a few years).

Pilot90210

How long did it take for you to receive your approved medical from the FAA?

JohnBurke

Because everything has been reported and documented, all you need to report on any future medical applications is "Previously Reported, No Change" (PRNC). The medical application, section 18, will have a series of conditions for which you must answer yes or no, if you have, or have ever had; when you check the box "yes," which evidently you did on your initial application, there will be a place for you to provide an explanation. Item I., "Neurological disorders; epilepsy; seizures; stroke; paralysis, etc" would he been checked "yes," and under explanations for section 18.I, you'd report "Previously Reported, No Change."

If the FAA wanted further data in the future or repeat testing to maintain a medical certificate, you'd have been given a special issuance, and additional data would need to be submitted each time. As you've reported that you didn't require a waiver, or special issuance, and no limitations were applied to your medical certification, all that is expected on future visits is to check the same box and list it as previously reported with no changes.

I highly recommend saving the application form each time you go in for your medical. This preserves a record for your own use showing exactly what you did and checked on prior applications. I do this and review my past applications, before filling out a new one. The medical form has changed slightly over the years; it's good to review your prior application to ensure that no errors are introduced (checking no when it should be yes, or checking the wrong box, etc).

As a side note, personally I might have suggested NOT reporting the seizure from your childhood. In your case, you were not diagnosed with anything, there are no records and you don't have any documentation to show that you didn't have a problem. All you have are intervening years in which it did not reoccur, and current medical data showing that you have no problem. There's nothing to be gained by reporting that event. I understand your desire to be transparent, and I understand honesty, integrity, and honor. I understand that you view not reporting the event as a lie of omission and I do understand the concept. That said, your post isn't a question but a statement: if you can do it, so can others, and on the surface that's commendable. If others try to follow your same path, however, there is no guarantee of the same outcome.

I knew a young lady who applied to the USMC, and in the course of her visit to MEPS, when asked if she'd ever thought of suicide, she conceded that yes, she had. When we chatted about that, she admitted that she wasn't suicidal, but that as a teenager, she'd thought about a lot of things from marriage to death to suicide to sex to her future career. I asked if she'd considered committing suicide and she replied no, but she'd thought about it the same way she thought about anything else. The civil war. Tax. Fast food. Boys. Owning a car. Now, of course, the USMC wasn't interested in whether she'd thought about those things, but the intent of the question was whether she considered suicide, and she hadn't. She did check the box, however, and told me afterward that she felt intimidated by the repeated references to imprisonment and penalties if everything wasn't disclosed.

Bottom line, this young lady was no more a threat to her than anyone else, and she wasn't suicidal, nor did she contemplate doing harm to herself. She checked the box, however, and by opening that can or worms, she didn't end up joining the Marine Corps.

Some suggest that one shouldn't admit to anything: make the. AME find anything. This is a dangerous advice, but so is stipulating to things that either don't matter and aren't discoverable, or that have never been diagnosed. One shouldn't, for example, say one is epileptic, if one hasn't been diagnosed with epilepsy. One might suspect, or think so, but we live in a world of people self-diagnosing all kinds of maladies based on what they read on the internet; if one hasn't been diagnosed, one may be better off not stipulating to the condition.

In your case, you had a seizure, or believed you had a seizure, as a child; seizures happen for many reasons, and a prime concern from the FAA is that any condition has an explanation. Loss of consciousness, for example: it's acceptable to have been punched in the boxing ring and lost consciousness. It's not acceptable to have an unexplained loss of consciousness (ULOC); this enters a-world-or-hurt territory where the FAA is concerned. It's a show-stopper. The same is true when there's an explanation, but no documentation to back it up, because its' hard for the FAA to put a first-hand, second-hand, or third-party explanation on file. Documentation goes on file very well.

The FAA medical application form, section 18, asks in capital letters, "have you ever in your life been diagnosed with, had, or do you presently have any of the following." You can legitimately argue that you had, which is one of the three choices (been diagnosed, had, or have). I would counter that one needs to consider the wisdom in stipulating to something for which there is no record, no verifiable history, no diagnosis, no evidence, no support, and no appeal. One may quite literally paint one's self into a corner. Use care in what you say. It worked out well for you. This does not guarantee the same result to the next applicant.

I generally counsel to be transparent, and I do not advise people to hide things. I see frequent references to this from people who want to hide a traffic citation or incident that they think is hidden or protected or expunged; theiris becomes a matter of concealment based on having plea-bargained that drunk driving event to reckless, or whatever the case may be, or the hope that an expungement really does make records go away (it doesn't), or that juvenile records aren't discoverable (they are). Bad counsel would be to hide that information. That said, in the case of an undiagnosed malady with no records to support any aspect of the event, its treatment, or its resolution, I'd be careful volunteering your own diagnosis or account, especially if you aren't qualified to do so.

Congratulations on your own medical certification and ongoing career, and as always, thank you for your prior service.