FAA medical crime question
05-26-2010, 01:33 AM
#31
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 2
Revoked Medical Certificate
Initially, I would like to thank all of you for your attention and your time reading my story that I will try to keep short.
I would like to also keep myself anonymous for obvious reasons and get an advice from somebody who can really help me to get myself out of this “weird” situation.
So here is what happened,
I am a flight instructor with a little bit under a thousand hours, I hold Commercial Pilot License, SEL/MEL/IR as well as CFI/II/MEI. I have been examined by doctors almost my whole life for general checkups as well as for my 1st class European Medical Certificate which as known is one of the toughest to get. I have been examined by a US aeromedical examiner three times my entire staying within United States. As I was walking my career path there was a period that I couldn’t find neither an airline job nor a flight instructors job so I decided to start my little own flight school somewhere in Florida. Just to let you know, during my entire flight training, solo, dual flight time I never have had any issues with the FAA until the day I started my own business which was not something big. In less words one day out of blue an FAA safety inspector walks through my door and in less words he started telling me that the purpose that he was there was because he has had received reports from a “person” and then he kept correcting himself and saying “people”
that we don’t comply with maintenance records or ad and we do not let the people flying the airplanes to see the maintenance records of the aircrafts I have. To my surprise I said “Sir with respect to you please let me open the binders that the pilots receive before they go to fly to see that there are copies of the aircraft inspection endorsements within the binder as well as the aircraft’s main logbooks.” This gentleman didn’t let me to open anything and he kept on by saying if I tare this place apart I will find you illegal and I will shut you down. So as you understand I automatically had received the “message” and I asked him what should I do? Then he told me that I should go whether for reexamination as far as my pilot’s licenses or retraining (he kept saying he is a flight instructor J ) and he said “you definitely don’t want to go for reexamination because 99% people fail”. He also stated that he flipped a sea-plane before and he had to go through retraining and it is not a bad thing to do. I became a little bit nervous with that situation I was in and asked him that “what do my licenses have to do with the inspections of the airplanes and the reports that you claim you have received?” Then he said that you are the operator and we can suspend your licenses if we want. Well, I told him, “Sir please check our logbooks and if you find something illegal, then proceed with the suspension”. The gentlemen left my office informing me that he was going to give me a call later on the same day. He never called me back. Two days later I called the FSDO to find out some more information regarding the case and I had the chance to speak to the supervisor that he was extremely rude with me and informing me after I mentioned my name that the safety inspector went back to his office and he wrote a report that my airplanes had no 100hr inspection, no AD compliance, no annuals and that I threaten him that “I was going to kill myself”. When he told me that “I lost the land under my legs” I was like, sir, this is all false information and I would like to make an appointment to come to your office and present to you all the aircraft logs with the manager of my small business that she was in front of the entire conversation with the inspector and I can guarantee you that the situation is not presented as it happened. After all I called another FSDO near to the one that I am located and within less words they didn’t help me at all but make it worse because I was emotional on the phone because of the entire harassment and the situation in General. Few days later I checked on-line and see that my medical certificate was suspended. I called the main office in Oklahoma and they sent me the report in fax that states that I have “behaviorism Instability” which surprised me to the extreme. I called every office of the FAA you can imagine. I offered them to go for a psychological examination to prove that things were not the way that this gentleman stated collecting more than 12 reports from students, instructors, people around me as well as my maintenance base that everything is straight and we comply with everything and fax them to them. My students were surprised, my flight instructors too and my friends told me that this guy was definitely crazy and he needed reexamination for the position he was serving.
I am 26 years old and as you understand in the very beginning of my career steps. Please if there is anybody that can help other than my lawyer that did everything possible and told me not to wary and just wait, please advise .
I would like to say again that I have a European medical certificate, as well as 3 FAA examinations and I have been through psychological exams for the European Medical and I passed 100%.
Pleas respect my anonymous appeararnce because I would hate to see even my pants taken. :P
Best Regards,
[email protected]
I would like to also keep myself anonymous for obvious reasons and get an advice from somebody who can really help me to get myself out of this “weird” situation.
So here is what happened,
I am a flight instructor with a little bit under a thousand hours, I hold Commercial Pilot License, SEL/MEL/IR as well as CFI/II/MEI. I have been examined by doctors almost my whole life for general checkups as well as for my 1st class European Medical Certificate which as known is one of the toughest to get. I have been examined by a US aeromedical examiner three times my entire staying within United States. As I was walking my career path there was a period that I couldn’t find neither an airline job nor a flight instructors job so I decided to start my little own flight school somewhere in Florida. Just to let you know, during my entire flight training, solo, dual flight time I never have had any issues with the FAA until the day I started my own business which was not something big. In less words one day out of blue an FAA safety inspector walks through my door and in less words he started telling me that the purpose that he was there was because he has had received reports from a “person” and then he kept correcting himself and saying “people”
that we don’t comply with maintenance records or ad and we do not let the people flying the airplanes to see the maintenance records of the aircrafts I have. To my surprise I said “Sir with respect to you please let me open the binders that the pilots receive before they go to fly to see that there are copies of the aircraft inspection endorsements within the binder as well as the aircraft’s main logbooks.” This gentleman didn’t let me to open anything and he kept on by saying if I tare this place apart I will find you illegal and I will shut you down. So as you understand I automatically had received the “message” and I asked him what should I do? Then he told me that I should go whether for reexamination as far as my pilot’s licenses or retraining (he kept saying he is a flight instructor J ) and he said “you definitely don’t want to go for reexamination because 99% people fail”. He also stated that he flipped a sea-plane before and he had to go through retraining and it is not a bad thing to do. I became a little bit nervous with that situation I was in and asked him that “what do my licenses have to do with the inspections of the airplanes and the reports that you claim you have received?” Then he said that you are the operator and we can suspend your licenses if we want. Well, I told him, “Sir please check our logbooks and if you find something illegal, then proceed with the suspension”. The gentlemen left my office informing me that he was going to give me a call later on the same day. He never called me back. Two days later I called the FSDO to find out some more information regarding the case and I had the chance to speak to the supervisor that he was extremely rude with me and informing me after I mentioned my name that the safety inspector went back to his office and he wrote a report that my airplanes had no 100hr inspection, no AD compliance, no annuals and that I threaten him that “I was going to kill myself”. When he told me that “I lost the land under my legs” I was like, sir, this is all false information and I would like to make an appointment to come to your office and present to you all the aircraft logs with the manager of my small business that she was in front of the entire conversation with the inspector and I can guarantee you that the situation is not presented as it happened. After all I called another FSDO near to the one that I am located and within less words they didn’t help me at all but make it worse because I was emotional on the phone because of the entire harassment and the situation in General. Few days later I checked on-line and see that my medical certificate was suspended. I called the main office in Oklahoma and they sent me the report in fax that states that I have “behaviorism Instability” which surprised me to the extreme. I called every office of the FAA you can imagine. I offered them to go for a psychological examination to prove that things were not the way that this gentleman stated collecting more than 12 reports from students, instructors, people around me as well as my maintenance base that everything is straight and we comply with everything and fax them to them. My students were surprised, my flight instructors too and my friends told me that this guy was definitely crazy and he needed reexamination for the position he was serving.I am 26 years old and as you understand in the very beginning of my career steps. Please if there is anybody that can help other than my lawyer that did everything possible and told me not to wary and just wait, please advise .
I would like to say again that I have a European medical certificate, as well as 3 FAA examinations and I have been through psychological exams for the European Medical and I passed 100%.
- They did not let me take a psychological exam
- The inspector was not an aeromedical examiner or related to that at all.
- No options of actions to take on the letter from the FAA.
My medical certificate just out of blue was suspended/revoked I don't really know. The letter does not state any of those words.
Pleas respect my anonymous appeararnce because I would hate to see even my pants taken. :P
Best Regards,
[email protected]
05-26-2010, 07:44 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: UnemploymentJet
Posts: 314
My advice to you:
Let someone else represent you. You need to keep your emotions in check and the best way to do this is to not talk to the FAA yourself and let an expert work with the Feds. Join AOPA and sign up for their medical program or contact Virtual Flight Surgeons Inc. -- Your One Source for FAA Medical Certification Waiver Assistance! .
In addition, part of the problem MAY be due to a language barrier. Your written English is pretty good, but not perfect. (I don't say this to offend you.) Any language/grammar errors COULD be causing/adding to misunderstandings between you and the FAA. Again, best advice is to let someone else speak to the FAA for you. Good luck and keep us informed!
Let someone else represent you. You need to keep your emotions in check and the best way to do this is to not talk to the FAA yourself and let an expert work with the Feds. Join AOPA and sign up for their medical program or contact Virtual Flight Surgeons Inc. -- Your One Source for FAA Medical Certification Waiver Assistance! .
In addition, part of the problem MAY be due to a language barrier. Your written English is pretty good, but not perfect. (I don't say this to offend you.) Any language/grammar errors COULD be causing/adding to misunderstandings between you and the FAA. Again, best advice is to let someone else speak to the FAA for you. Good luck and keep us informed!
05-26-2010, 07:56 AM
#34
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Get a lawyer with aviation experience.
If the examiner wanted to shut you down for reasons of his own, the charge of behavioral instability might just be a means to that end...he would need documented proof of Mx or operational irregularities but "behavioral instability" could be just his word against yours. Maybe his whole game was to come in, make false accusations to get you fired up, and then use your reaction as grounds for medical revocation.
Also try to figure out this guy's motives...if you no previous history with him and everything is as you say then he has no legit reason to come after you. In a place like FL he might have a cousin or a drinking buddy who also owns a flight school or does business as an instructor...maybe you are competing? Ask around...if you can find something like that and shine a light on it, this might all go away pretty quickly.
If you have any reason to believe there is corruption involved (as opposed to over-zealous enforcement) go to the FBI...they are the "top-dog" law enforcement agency in this country, and will investigate corruption in other agencies.
If the examiner wanted to shut you down for reasons of his own, the charge of behavioral instability might just be a means to that end...he would need documented proof of Mx or operational irregularities but "behavioral instability" could be just his word against yours. Maybe his whole game was to come in, make false accusations to get you fired up, and then use your reaction as grounds for medical revocation.
Also try to figure out this guy's motives...if you no previous history with him and everything is as you say then he has no legit reason to come after you. In a place like FL he might have a cousin or a drinking buddy who also owns a flight school or does business as an instructor...maybe you are competing? Ask around...if you can find something like that and shine a light on it, this might all go away pretty quickly.
If you have any reason to believe there is corruption involved (as opposed to over-zealous enforcement) go to the FBI...they are the "top-dog" law enforcement agency in this country, and will investigate corruption in other agencies.
05-26-2010, 12:27 PM
#35
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 2
Thank you very much all of you for your quick response.
I would not like to give it a definition like corruption or anything else for obvious reasons but I truly believe that there was a purpose behind all this for the simple fact that everything has happened so quickly and without any options. As far as my emotions you are right, I have to keep my emotions out of that but please be aware that my emotions and high interest in flying is what drove me into that so far. Also, why would he like to shut down a small flight school? Everybody knows that I was just trying to get some business so I can work as a flight instructor and that is because I have family and somehow I have to bring the food on the table. I tried to do that without being necessary to get into another industry. Another thing that I think the inspector used against me is the fact that I am coming from a European country which means that I am not a US citizen (I am trying to be
). The reason that I just mentioned that is because some times and due to the culture differentials, people decode what you say differently and build up a structure of a wrong opinion. I have hired an AOPAS lawyer and he is very helpful and he has told me not to worry. I trust him as far as that because he looks honest and has great personality but still I am in the same situation and nothing has changed. I have also contacted Virtual Flight Surgeons Inc and trying to get some more information on the case from there as well. My biggest fear is that based on that situation, later on I will not be able to get any airline job at all. Regarding FBI, I don’t really know what to tell you… If I call them and tell them what happened they might hang up on me hehehehehehe… Also I am an easy going person and I don’t like problems and even if I try to go against them I will definitely have more problems and I rather go play with my son.
I would not like to give it a definition like corruption or anything else for obvious reasons but I truly believe that there was a purpose behind all this for the simple fact that everything has happened so quickly and without any options. As far as my emotions you are right, I have to keep my emotions out of that but please be aware that my emotions and high interest in flying is what drove me into that so far. Also, why would he like to shut down a small flight school? Everybody knows that I was just trying to get some business so I can work as a flight instructor and that is because I have family and somehow I have to bring the food on the table. I tried to do that without being necessary to get into another industry. Another thing that I think the inspector used against me is the fact that I am coming from a European country which means that I am not a US citizen (I am trying to be
). The reason that I just mentioned that is because some times and due to the culture differentials, people decode what you say differently and build up a structure of a wrong opinion. I have hired an AOPAS lawyer and he is very helpful and he has told me not to worry. I trust him as far as that because he looks honest and has great personality but still I am in the same situation and nothing has changed. I have also contacted Virtual Flight Surgeons Inc and trying to get some more information on the case from there as well. My biggest fear is that based on that situation, later on I will not be able to get any airline job at all. Regarding FBI, I don’t really know what to tell you… If I call them and tell them what happened they might hang up on me hehehehehehe… Also I am an easy going person and I don’t like problems and even if I try to go against them I will definitely have more problems and I rather go play with my son.
05-27-2010, 06:35 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Courtroom
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by hspilot23
what if the misdemeanors or felonies are on a juvenile record? would you still have to report them to the FAA? like, say, if I was 15 years old when i vandalized property and got a felony (it just so happened to be government property... oops.)
JUV criminal histories do not follow you. You basically get to start over when you turn 18.
Juvenile criminal charges do not show up on a criminal history check, you future employer would have to call the jurisdiction this occrd in and specifically ask for "in-house" records of the event. And they "should not" release this because you were a juvenile.
I love pilots giving pilots other legal advice......
Ever notice how when a Juvenile is arrested the police can't release their names and the papers can't print their names.....same thing.
05-27-2010, 07:24 PM
#37
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by citation35hf
BIG FAT NO!
JUV criminal histories do not follow you. You basically get to start over when you turn 18.
Juvenile criminal charges do not show up on a criminal history check, you future employer would have to call the jurisdiction this occrd in and specifically ask for "in-house" records of the event. And they "should not" release this because you were a juvenile.
I love pilots giving pilots other legal advice......
Ever notice how when a Juvenile is arrested the police can't release their names and the papers can't print their names.....same thing.
JUV criminal histories do not follow you. You basically get to start over when you turn 18.
Juvenile criminal charges do not show up on a criminal history check, you future employer would have to call the jurisdiction this occrd in and specifically ask for "in-house" records of the event. And they "should not" release this because you were a juvenile.
I love pilots giving pilots other legal advice......
Ever notice how when a Juvenile is arrested the police can't release their names and the papers can't print their names.....same thing.
This is not true with the FBI database...if the crime was serious enough to qualify for the FBI database, assume it will stay there forever. That database is used for national security and intelligence purposes, there are some limits as to what juvenile crimes are reported (ie truancy, curfew violations are not) but juvenile crimes CAN make into the FBI database.
Airlines are required by the TSA to check the FBI database when they hire you.
05-27-2010, 07:51 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Courtroom
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by rickair7777
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. States have laws like that, but aviation is a federally regulated activity...state rules don't really count.
This is not true with the FBI database...if the crime was serious enough to qualify for the FBI database, assume it will stay there forever. That database is used for national security and intelligence purposes, there are some limits as to what juvenile crimes are reported (ie truancy, curfew violations are not) but juvenile crimes CAN make into the FBI database.
Airlines are required by the TSA to check the FBI database when they hire you.
This is not true with the FBI database...if the crime was serious enough to qualify for the FBI database, assume it will stay there forever. That database is used for national security and intelligence purposes, there are some limits as to what juvenile crimes are reported (ie truancy, curfew violations are not) but juvenile crimes CAN make into the FBI database.
Airlines are required by the TSA to check the FBI database when they hire you.
I specifically learned this in my NCIC training. Juvenile records do NOT GO INTO THE NCIC SYSTEM, unless the subject is charged as an adult. I have never once seen a juvenile arrest on a III (NCIC check) Plane and simple, there is no way around it. And there is no such thing as "a crime serious enough to report." All filed charges are reported to the FBI's NCIC computer system if your arrested as an adult or you are a juvenile and charged as an adult, then the system spits back a FBI number and a state number. Anyone who has even been arrested and charged with a crime has an FBI number and a state ID number assigned to them.
This is no different that a juvenile being arrested. I cannot say I am "charging this juvenile with this crime." "I am petitioning the juvenile with a crime".
The procedure and organization of the juvenile court system is different from the adult system. After committing an offense, juveniles are detained rather than arrested. Next, a petition is drawn up which outlines the jurisdiction authority of the juvenile court over the offense and detained individuals, gives notice for the reason for the court appearance, serves as notice to the minor's family, and also is the official charging document.
Once in court, the juvenile case is adjudicated, and a disposition is handed down. Records from juvenile courts are sealed documents, unlike adult records which are accessible by anyone under the Freedom of Information Act. Like diversion, this measure is designed to protect the juvenile so that one mistake does not follow the juvenile for life.
And if your new response is something along the lines of "well the airlines are required to check the FBI database and that has everything and it's different...." your wrong! Yes they check the NCIC for your criminal history, however like I explained above, Juvenile's arrests do not go into the NCIC computer.
I just yesterday arrested a 19 year old for theft, which is a D-Felony in my jurisdiction. When I asked him if he had ever been arrested before, he told me yes when he was 15 for the same thing. Funny, when I ran him through the NCIC computer I found nothing. I had to do an in-house in -county check to find his arrest and conviction when he was 15.
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