1st class for all 121 pilots
 

As a result of the upcoming changes to the Pilot Certification and Qualification Requirements for Air Carrier Operations, effective Aug. 2, 2013, all pilots will be required to hold a first-class medical certificate to operate as PIC or SIC under Part 121 operations.

Although the final rule has NOT yet been published, there has been no indication given by the FAA that there will be any exemptions or extensions to allow for compliance with this requirement. According to Part 61.23 Medical Certificates: Requirement and duration, a pilot must hold a first-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate.

That's a valid question... wish I could offer some insight but hopefully someone else in the know could help. I know you only need to have a 3rd class to get a pic type in the sim but, without looking at the regs, I'm not sure if you need a 1st for the atp ride portion. Do you have your ATP already by chance? Of course, most airline will want you to have the 1st for the interview.

You don't need any medical for the sim ride, AFAIK, even the ATP initial. An airplane ride will require a 3'rd.

Big deal. First class is nothig but an expensive second class. You wanna know who's fit to fly then make it an Icao standard across the board but wait that would create a huge pilot shortage.:-[:-[ never mind.

The big deal to me isn't the physical, it is the frequency. My free time is precious, and I hate the whole Dr. drill.

Give me an astronaut physical if that is what they want, but make it annually.

Really, this irritates me to no end. How did we, as a group, end up with all these career-ending events like multiple check rides and physicals? Make all the surgeons out there get a physical too, and while we're at it, give them multiple "check surgeries" with the threat of having their ticket yanked. Get them to pee in a bottle as well.

We are the most controlled and scrutinized demographic in the world. I agree with you 100% - the brain surgeon doesn't have to take a "check surgery" periodically, nobody from the government shows up unannounced to "check his credentials and licenses", nobody gives him an "oral evaluation", he's not subject to periodic and random drug testing, he doesn't have to get a physical every six months, etc.

Yet we'll willingly put ourselves through that for truck driver pay (nothing against truck drivers).

With all due respect there are no surgeons that will pay to get a job and there are no surgeons that will perform a surgery for 17000 a yr just to wear a doctor's uniform. We are our worst enemy.:cool:

I agree with you, but not sure what it has to do with being the most controlled/scrutinized demographic/career?

Ooops sorry I was responding to the guy before you:o

Re: being controlled, I think we all know the answer.

It has to do with the spectacular results of a mistake. Large body counts, apartments set ablaze, fire engines all over, "We MUST find out why this happened, and fix it", etc. Splashed all over the media.

In a hospital, it's a quiet "oops, he died on the table", and a closed retrospective meeting among doctors. What do they call it, the "morbidity" meeting? Can you imagine if, after an airline accident, a group of line pilots met in a closed room to discuss the incident?

I know it's not that simple, and doctors get sued all the time, but that doesn't change the fact that they can be popping oxy's all day long while they do their job, and no federal check doctor is going to watch their triple bypass.

Its all about the $$$$.

I just love it when people compare airline pilots to brain surgeons. Yes, we have an enormous responsibility and several lifes are in our hands, but .... it is a poor comparison. I know of pilots at the regonal level who barely have an associates degree, who attended some B.S fast track airline program. Bam..!! Four months later these guys are sitting in the right seat of a 80 seat jet. These same four month 300 hr. SJS specials are most likely the same people complaning about their career and comparing themselves to heart surgeons..!! Would someone please explain this to me... Thank you :D

I am at a 121 carrier and for PIC's under 40 it's a first class with annual renewal. Same for SIC's under 60.

If you want to reference the SJS crowd, it alters the dynamics. All I know is that in the time it took me to become minimally qualified for my job, I could have been an M.D. twice over.

More importantlly, it's about responsibility, and the sheer volume of job knowledge required.

If we sat in an operating room and watched an appendectomy, we'd probably be thinking "OMG, OMG, this is nuts, these guys are awesome" and the whole time, the surgeons are thinking about their tee time on Saturday. Put those docs on your jump seat during a night approach with a winter storm rolling in, and they'll be thinking the same thing of you. Yet to both groups, it's an everyday thing.

Watch a medical soap opera. Doc says, "I am a god. I hold the patient's life in my hands. I hold his actual heart in my hands." With airline flying, we hold 250+ people in our hands daily. One bad flick of the wrist at 50 feet AGL on an approach, and they're all dead.

Don't ever short-change yourself. We do it all the time, to the detriment of the profession.

There are people that have faked MD degrees before.

But yes, those fast-track programs are terrible. No one can learn to fly in such a short period of time IMO. You might be able to pass a checkride, sure, but any knowledge you've gained leaves just as fast as it was learned, and you've missed out on a large chunk of experience. Doing it so fast leaves out the various weather decisions you'll have to make over the years, going to different airports, experiencing airport changes/construction/notams, different aircraft and their quirks, and so on. At least people that go through a 4-year program experience stuff over 4 years. They aren't ready to take the controls of a jet by then, but I think their overall aviation awareness is higher. As long as there is a market, the "zero to hero in 4 months" programs will always be there unfortunately. The airlines would do themselves a favor by requiring these guys to get more experience, but hey, that's what the 1500 rule is for. It's exactly for this situation, thank god.

Thread drift - 4 years of med school and 3 to 7 years of residency, we'll say 5, times 2 is 18 years.

So you're not an M.D. until you complete residency?

Completely irrelevant. The comparison being drawn was the level of scrutiny required to be an airline pilot vs being a brain surgeon. There was no comparison made to the education, time to be proficient, etc. That's all red herring stuff - no brain surgeon, nor any doctor, undergoes the level of scrutiny and control an airline pilot does. No other occupation does.

...but we do it for truck driver wages (nothing against truck drivers).

You get the MD at the end of med school, you're not cut loose to "solo" till the end of your residency.