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Color Blind ? / GO FOR IT !

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Color Blind ? / GO FOR IT !

Old 09-13-2018, 08:09 AM
  #1  
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Default Color Blind ? / GO FOR IT !

From another post - this is a Public Service Announcement.


"...depending on the degree of color blindness....It is very important to try the alternate tests before doing the FAA test, since that one is final, if you fail it, you will never in your life fly solo at night."

WRONG.

Please don't burst people's bubble with incorrect information.

I am Color-Blind. I failed the Color Vision test. I had the Solo Night Restriction and then did both the First and Second Class Medical tests for demonstrated ability and had the restriction removed.

I have been flying for 44 years...30 of those flying 121 operations for 3 different airlines.

Typed in: CE-500, B-727, B-737, B-747-2, B-747-4


Color Blindness is NOT a Game Ender.

Thanks.



STK
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Old 06-28-2021, 10:04 AM
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...has there been anything new on this front?

Some time ago I went in for a medical and failed the Ishihara test, the examiner then pulled the Dvorine version and I believe I failed that one by one, he then handed me a restricted medical and told me to ask the FAA for the Operational Color Vision Test (OCVT).

Needless to say, I was very disillusioned by all of this, I ended up going to Phoenix to take the Farnsworth without much luck either. I then, after the year was over, ended up just letting the medical lapse while I continued working at my current employer, saving up. I'm looking to get back into this pursuit in the coming months, and I'm analyzing my options. It seems like the OCVT will be my only path forward, but I wanted to see if anyone had any other experiences, like many with this problem, I have no issues with red or green in my day to day life.

I have read quite a bit on this subject, and I doubt that there is anything new, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Thanks!
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Old 06-29-2021, 08:57 AM
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http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...ch/item52/amd/


Unacceptable Tests. Any test not specifically listed above are unacceptable methods of testing for FAA medical certificate. Examples of unacceptable tests include, but are not limited to, the OPTEC 5000 Vision Tester (color vision portion), “Farnsworth Lantern Flashlight,” and “yarn tests.”

Also, they DO NOT GIVE SODA's for color vision anymore, it is now a "Letter of Evidence", and that is ONLY if you take the FAA MFT/OCVT after failing an AME's lab test. This is a one time shot. You can go around looking for a lab test you can bass, but based on what you are telling me, you are dichromatic, which, I'm sorry to say is a severe color vision deficiency. You may be missing red or green receptors altogether. Most "color deficient" people are 'anomalous trichromats', and they can usually find a test they can pass, and don't have any real world problems with telling colors apart, it's just the tests they struggle with, they are 110% safe in the real world of flying or anything else. They are considered to have a 'mild deficiency', and have a slightly weaker green or red receptor. (Most cases are green weak) But they still have all 3. Yours sounds more severe, especially if you can't tell the green from red light apart. To answer your questions about the lights, most people don't know squat about colors, because they never had to deal with this... Don't listen to them.

Not all "whites" are the same. Some are "warm" and some are "cool" The warmer whites DO look slightly yellowish, and the cooler ones have some blue in them (like a "white" LED, or a flashy car with HID beams) Traffic light green does have a hint of "blue" mixed in with the color also - for that exact purpose - so severely color deficient people can tell them apart. Most people will be like "what are you talking about? It's green, green is green. etc" They are clueless. Most colors are a mix of the 3 primaries (RGB), and even the "primaries" used in daily life have a mix of something else in them. Computer LED green has yellow mixed in it, Amber is yellow-orange, etc. They made the FALANT white purposely dim and yellowish to confuse people... Keep that in mind, because color "blind" (misnomer except for achromatic folks which are extremely rare) people learn to adapt by using brightness differences.

It would behoove you to get to know more about yourself. Call a local optometry college or university, talk to them, explain your situation and tell them you want a battery of every color vision test they have. Print up the FAA page I sent you, and bring it with you to show to the doctor. It might cost you 100 bux, but it's 100 bux spent to learn about yourself from an objective and educated perspective. Most people, even eye doctors don't know much about color vision, but someone who studies it for a living, like at a university, does.

Also the FALANT IS accepted, the flashlight knock-off is not.

If you pass any FAA accepted test, ACCORDING TO THEIR STANDARDS (they allow more errors on ishihara, etc) then note down which test you passed, and hit the internet again searching for an AME that has this test... Or get the doctor to fill out an FAA 8500-7 form for you (i believe that's the one) and take it to your AME as well. But from the sounds of it, I don't think you will have any luck on those... Your best bet would be to study the sectional, learn what colors certain lights are SUPPOSED to be, test yourself, have other people test you, then try out the OCVT/MFT. But to do that, you need to fail color vision on your medical, and call the FAA. Remember this is one time pass fail if you go this route, but at least you will know for sure and can plan your life. I'm sorry that you are suffering this, I know your pain, and it sucks. But your best bet is to learn a little bit about flying, the sectional charts, the lights, then take the first class medical, allow them to fail you on color vision (they stamp a night flight restriction on your medical), call the FSDO, get the test done and see if you can pass... Good luck

Also call a tower up, ask to schedule a time to try out the light gun informally (slow time for them, like an evening) , get a handheld or a cell phone, and have them shine the light gun down at you with all the colors at 1000 - 1500 feet away and see if you can tell them apart. Go buy a sectional chart too, and sit with a color normal person and have them quiz you on the lines, text, markings, terrain colors, etc. It notes what colors things are supposed to be on the left side. Try to get a high quality camera and record a video of them doing the light gun so you can give other people an example as well, I'd like to see it (i know the colors vary, but it's still an idea, the link you posted was low quality video).

I recommend looking for the Dvorine, Keystone Telebinocular, Richmond test... Supposedly they have less false positives than the ishihara test. Keep in mind tho, they let you get 5 or less errors on plates 1 to 11 of the 14 plate ishihara test. Can you get 6 right (1 is a demonstration plate, so that's an automatic +1)? Try different lighting too. Some "color normal" people DO fail certain color vision tests, so keep that in mind as well.

----------------------------------
...you are authorized to take the Operational Color Vision Test (OCVT). The OCVT is a Signal Light Test (SLT) combined with demostration of the ability to identify colors on aeronautical charts and maps. You are also authorized to take a color vision Medical Flight Test (MFT).

It does not explain what is involved in the MFT, but it goes on to say that if you:

Quote:
...do not meet the standard the OCVT during the daylight hours, you may retake the test at night. After successful completion of the OCVT at night, a medical certificate with the limitation of "Not valid for flights requiring color signal control during daylight hours." will be issued.

However, the inspector may wish to return the test results to this office [OKC] for further review and decision
-----------------------------------
Here is the latest I can find. Who did you talk to at AOPA? This has been discussed on their forum for at least a month ...

http://www.aopa.org/members/pic/medi...ion/color.html

Here's the text ...

VISION—COLOR RESTRICTION REMOVAL

The medical standards in FAR Part 67 specify that applicants for all classes of medical certification have “the ability to perceive those colors necessary for the safe performance of airman duties.”

In 2002, a FedEx Boeing 727 crashed into trees on approach to Tallahassee, Fla., resulting in the loss of the aircraft and serious injuries to the three crewmembers. The NTSB investigation determined that the first officer’s color vision deficiency was one of several causal factors. As an outcome of that investigation and a subsequent safety recommendation, the FAA has modified its procedures for removing the operational restrictions for color vision deficiency. The new procedures vary depending upon the class of medical applied for or held.

If you fail the pseudoisochromatic color plate test at the time of your FAA physical exam, the aviation medical examiner (AME) may issue your medical certificate with the limitation “Not valid for night flying or color signal control.” To have the restriction removed, you may choose to take one of the FAA-approved alternative pseudoisochromatic color plate tests. These tests take into account the degree of color vision defect and are less sensitive to mild color vision deficiency. The Dvorine 2nd edition 15-plate test is one that you might consider taking. Your local eye care specialist, either an optometrist or ophthalmologist, may have available one or more of the allowed tests.

If you successfully complete the alternate test, you will be considered as having acceptable color vision for the FAA. You will need to take a color vision test each time you reapply for a medical certificate. Try to take the same test that you previously passed each time you reapply. If you need to seek an outside specialist to take such a test, make sure you obtain a letter from that individual that mentions the type of color vision test and the passing results. Take this to your AME at the time of your FAA exam. The AME may then issue the new certificate without the color vision restriction.

If you cannot pass one of the alternate tests, you have another option that requires taking an operational color vision test with an FAA aviation safety inspector through the local flight standards district office (FSDO). The information describing the tests is found in FAA Order 8900.1, FSIMS, Volume 5, Chapter 8, Sections 5-1523.F, 5-1526.E.6, and 5-1527 F.

For third class medicals: If you cannot successfully complete an alternative color plate test, you will be required to pass an operational color vision test (OCVT). This test has two components:

(a) A signal light test administered at an airport air traffic control tower; and

(b) A practical test in which you must read and correctly identify colors on aeronautical charts.

Upon successful completion of both elements of the OCVT, the aviation safety inspector will issue a letter of evidence and a medical certificate with the limitation “3rd Class Letter of Evidence.”

If you fail the signal light test portion of the OCVT during daylight hours, you will be able to retake the test at night. If you pass the nighttime test, your medical restriction will read, “Not valid for flights requiring color signal control during daylight hours.” If you cannot pass the OCVT during day or night hours, the restriction will read, “Not valid for night flying or by color signal control.”

Important note: If you fail the daytime signal light test, you will not be eligible for either first or second class medical certification, may not be issued a letter of evidence, and may not have the limitation modified or removed.

For first or second class medicals:

(a) Successful completion of an operational color vision test (OCVT) described above; and

(b) A color vision medical flight test (MFT). This is an actual flight test and requires the following:

(1) You must read and correctly interpret in a timely manner aviation instruments or displays, particularly those with colored limitation marks, and colored instrument panel lights, especially marker beacon lights, warning or caution lights, weather displays, etc.

(2) You must recognize terrain and obstructions in a timely manner; select several emergency landing fields, preferably under marginal conditions, and describe the surface (for example, sod, stubble, plowed field, presence of terrain roll or pitch, if any), and also describe how the conclusions were determined, and identify obstructions such as ditches, fences, terraces, low spots, rocks, stumps, and, in particular, any gray, tan, or brown objects in green fields.

(3) You must visually identify in a timely manner the location, color, and significance of aeronautical lights. To minimize the effect of memorizing the color of a light associated with a particular light system, the aviation safety inspector should make every effort to not use the light system name during the flight, but rather to ask you to identify a light color and the significance of as many of the following lights as possible:

(a). Colored lights of other aircraft in the vicinity;
(b). Runway approach lights, including both the approach light system (ALS) and visual glideslope indicators;
(c). Runway edge light system;
(d). Runway end identifier lights;
(e). In-runway lighting (runway centerline [CL] lights, touchdown zone [TDZ] lights, taxiway lead-off lights, and land and hold short lights);
(f). Airport boundary lights;
(g).Taxiway lights (edge lights, CL lights, clearance bar lights, runway guard lights, and stop bar lights;
(h).Red warning lights on television towers, high buildings, stacks, etc.;
(i). Airport beacon lights.

If you pass the operational color vision test (OCVT) and the color vision medical flight test, the inspector will issue a letter of evidence that’s valid for all classes and a medical certificate with no limitation or comment regarding color vision.

If you fail the signal light test portion of the OCVT during daylight hours, you will be able to retake the test at night. If you pass the nighttime test, your medical restriction will read, “Not valid for flights requiring color signal control during daylight hours.” If you cannot pass the OCVT during day or night hours, the restriction will read, “Not valid for night flying or by color signal control.”

Because this new policy is complicated by the need to interact with the local FSDO, AOPA recommends that pilots who need only third class medical certificates try one or more of the alternate color plate tests first. If that fails, do a “trial run” of the signal light test during daylight hours with the air traffic control tower first, preferably with someone who has “normal” color vision, to confirm that you correctly identified the tower light signals. When you know you can pass the test, you can contact the FAA for approval to take the test.

If you hold a statement of demonstrated ability (SODA) or a letter of evidence that was issued before July 2008, your color vision waiver is grandfathered, and you will not be required to test according to the new procedure.

-----------------------
CURE?
http://live.wsj.com/video/a-cure-for...9-824AE7C1D5D9
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Old 06-29-2021, 03:44 PM
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I appreciate the information USMCFLYR, I will go ahead and proceed with this problem using the suggestions you stated in order to see if I'll be able to partake in this career or not, it's unfortunate but it's better to know and than to keep wondering. Thanks!
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Old 11-03-2022, 08:02 AM
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I am hoping that replying here, I might get some help from someone. I recently just took my first class medical earlier this week and did not pass the Ishihara test or the Farnsworth Lantern test. I am currently demoralized because my AME stated that the only further option I have is to take the OCVT. I'm very weary of taking it, since you only have one opportunity at passing it. I also have not flown at all yet, so am unsure how I would be able to fully do the test in order to get a first class medical since my ultimate goal is to do a fast track flight program if I can fly without a restriction.

I've found there are multiple other tests that are acceptable to the FAA. I was wondering if I am still able to take these tests even after my medical was issued with the restriction on it. If I can, would I have to find an AME that offers these tests or is it possible to see any optometrist, since it seems difficult to find AME's in my area (Phoenix) that offer all the tests.

I want to have the greatest possible amount of chances at taking the restriction off of my medical before taking the OCVT. It's better to exhaust all my options first before turning to that. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-03-2022, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bagpipehero25 View Post
I am hoping that replying here, I might get some help from someone. I recently just took my first class medical earlier this week and did not pass the Ishihara test or the Farnsworth Lantern test. I am currently demoralized because my AME stated that the only further option I have is to take the OCVT. I'm very weary of taking it, since you only have one opportunity at passing it. I also have not flown at all yet, so am unsure how I would be able to fully do the test in order to get a first class medical since my ultimate goal is to do a fast track flight program if I can fly without a restriction.

I've found there are multiple other tests that are acceptable to the FAA. I was wondering if I am still able to take these tests even after my medical was issued with the restriction on it. If I can, would I have to find an AME that offers these tests or is it possible to see any optometrist, since it seems difficult to find AME's in my area (Phoenix) that offer all the tests.

I want to have the greatest possible amount of chances at taking the restriction off of my medical before taking the OCVT. It's better to exhaust all my options first before turning to that. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
First, of all, I've held a SODA for deficient color vision since 1985.

I'll also point out, my understanding is that 10% of males have some degree of color vision deficiency, but most are not even aware of it, because it's so mild they had no idea until they were tested for it. And that was exactly my case. I can see colors, I just can't pass the stupid test.

So, if that sounds like you, then I would say absolutely do not worry about the test flight. If you can see colors normally, but can't pass the stupid tests you WILL pass the flight test.

However, if your color vision is severely deficient, like you only see in shades of grey, then I'm afraid you might have a problem. I would take a flight with a CFI and explain what your situation is, and have them simply quiz you on all the colored markings (instruments, charts, pavement, lighting, etc). That's what the FAA will do on the test flight.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
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Old 11-03-2022, 03:51 PM
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https://www.myflightsurgeon.com/

I believe this AME has a few different tests and is located close to PHX. Maybe this is who you went to considering not too many have the lantern anymore. I think you can still take another clinic test to remove it however once you take the OCVT that’s it.

These are linked above as well:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ch/item52/amd/
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