Moderate depression and anxiety, can I fly?
12-04-2023, 02:00 PM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 2
Moderate depression and anxiety, can I fly?
Can I get a first class medical with moderate depression and anxiety?
I went to the doctor last year for an annual exam and my doctor gave me a depression and anxiety quiz. The results were: moderate depression and moderate anxiety. I am not on medication of any sorts.
I am wondering if this will screw me over if I try to become a pilot now?
I went to the doctor last year for an annual exam and my doctor gave me a depression and anxiety quiz. The results were: moderate depression and moderate anxiety. I am not on medication of any sorts.
I am wondering if this will screw me over if I try to become a pilot now?
12-08-2023, 01:22 PM
#2
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Maybe someone will share a link to the relavent FAA medical documents, but my guess if you want to fly professionally (which requires at minimum a second class medical), the answer would be no. You may wish to consult an Airmen's Medical Examiner (AME) and discuss this without making a formal application.
12-08-2023, 02:37 PM
#3
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,023
This question is better suited to the medical forum.
What you're describing is too generic to merit a specific response, but is a diagnosis. It's unclear what kind of doctor made this diagnosis. Your description sounds like a general practitioner (eg, family doctor) gave you a quiz and decided based on that to diagnose you with anxiety and depression. You don't indicate any subsequent treatment, other than no drugs. Was no therapy or follow-up involved?
Was this situational depression? A singular event tied to something which would elicit a similar reaction in a normal person (divorce, death in the family, significant personal loss or change, etc) might be a stressor leading to a single event. The FAA's position with this is that such an event would be typified by treatment of six months or less (after resolution of the event that led to the depression). A longer period of treatment might be classified as a Major Depressive Disorder, or a significant depressive diagnosis.
You can view the aviaiton medical examiner's decision tool on situational depression: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/...Depression.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/...ision-Tool.pdf
The FAA takes a keen interest in mental disorders (which include depression). Some years ago a pilot made a statement that each time he departed an airport and flew over a cemetary, he said a quiet prayer for his son, who was buried there. The FAA revoked his medical certificate. This may be surprising, but isn't out of line from FAA behaviors; many pilots are very hesitant to admit to anxiety or depression, or other issues that fall in the mental health umbrella (includes emotional health).
If your doctor is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, he or she may not be qualified to make a diagnosis of your condition, but would more appropriately recommend you to a professional who can both assess your condition, and offer treatment solutions. Untreated depression is unhealthy, and potentially dangerous; it has implications in everything from behavior to blood sugar and other physical effects.
Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 67, addresses the FAA legal medical requirements, with 61.107 being the mental requirements for a first class medical certificate:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...section-67.107
(a) No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:
(1) A personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts.
(2) A psychosis. As used in this section, “psychosis” refers to a mental disorder in which:
(i) The individual has manifested delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition; or
(ii) The individual may reasonably be expected to manifest delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition.
(3) A bipolar disorder.
(4) Substance dependence, except where there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. As used in this section—
(i) “Substance” includes: Alcohol; other sedatives and hypnotics; anxiolytics; opioids; central nervous system stimulants such as cocaine, amphetamines, and similarly acting sympathomimetics; hallucinogens; phencyclidine or similarly acting arylcyclohexylamines; cannabis; inhalants; and other psychoactive drugs and chemicals; and
(ii) “Substance dependence” means a condition in which a person is dependent on a substance, other than tobacco or ordinary xanthine-containing (e.g., caffeine) beverages, as evidenced by—
(A) Increased tolerance;
(B) Manifestation of withdrawal symptoms;
(C) Impaired control of use; or
(D) Continued use despite damage to physical health or impairment of social, personal, or occupational functioning.
(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:
(1) Use of a substance in a situation in which that use was physically hazardous, if there has been at any other time an instance of the use of a substance also in a situation in which that use was physically hazardous;
(2) A verified positive drug test result, an alcohol test result of 0.04 or greater alcohol concentration, or a refusal to submit to a drug or alcohol test required by the U.S. Department of Transportation or an agency of the U.S. Department of Transportation; or
(3) Misuse of a substance that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the substance involved, finds—
(i) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or
(ii) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.
(c) No other personality disorder, neurosis, or other mental condition that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds—
(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or
(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.
Note the beginning of that paragraph which states, "no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of...". Thile minor depression that is situational is something that, with proper documentation, an aviaiton medical examiner could issue a certificate, most other cases will require ore documentation from a treating psychologist, and deferral to the FAA to make a decision. It is very much a case-by-case individual assessment.
Taking a quiz is not the same as a clinical evaluation. If you were given a simple anxiety quiz, for example (https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/anxiety-quiz), that does not qualify as or substitute for a clinical evaluation.
The FAA does allow pilots with depression and anxiety to fly, but on an individually evaluated basis; this includes medicated and non-medicated cases, with limitations on what is allowed. The FAA is looking at safety. Depression does not mean you cannot get medical certification, or fly, but specifics, and treatment matter. If you have a history of suicidal ideation (have pondered the idea or been thinkiing about or considering suicide), for example, this represents a threat to you and the public. It also should receive treatment and counseling, for your own wellbeing. Depression can affect bodily function, and can lead to sleep problems and fatigue, which impair judgment and lead to other health issues. Again, such should be treated. Some conditions, such as bipolar disorder, are disqualifying.
AMAS, the aviation medical advisory service, has a page addressing anxiety and varous disorders, including depression. Read over that, and then continue with the discussion:
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/art...gical-support/
What you're describing is too generic to merit a specific response, but is a diagnosis. It's unclear what kind of doctor made this diagnosis. Your description sounds like a general practitioner (eg, family doctor) gave you a quiz and decided based on that to diagnose you with anxiety and depression. You don't indicate any subsequent treatment, other than no drugs. Was no therapy or follow-up involved?
Was this situational depression? A singular event tied to something which would elicit a similar reaction in a normal person (divorce, death in the family, significant personal loss or change, etc) might be a stressor leading to a single event. The FAA's position with this is that such an event would be typified by treatment of six months or less (after resolution of the event that led to the depression). A longer period of treatment might be classified as a Major Depressive Disorder, or a significant depressive diagnosis.
You can view the aviaiton medical examiner's decision tool on situational depression: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/...Depression.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/...ision-Tool.pdf
The FAA takes a keen interest in mental disorders (which include depression). Some years ago a pilot made a statement that each time he departed an airport and flew over a cemetary, he said a quiet prayer for his son, who was buried there. The FAA revoked his medical certificate. This may be surprising, but isn't out of line from FAA behaviors; many pilots are very hesitant to admit to anxiety or depression, or other issues that fall in the mental health umbrella (includes emotional health).
If your doctor is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, he or she may not be qualified to make a diagnosis of your condition, but would more appropriately recommend you to a professional who can both assess your condition, and offer treatment solutions. Untreated depression is unhealthy, and potentially dangerous; it has implications in everything from behavior to blood sugar and other physical effects.
Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 67, addresses the FAA legal medical requirements, with 61.107 being the mental requirements for a first class medical certificate:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...section-67.107
§ 67.107 Mental.
Mental standards for a first-class airman medical certificate are:(a) No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:
(1) A personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts.
(2) A psychosis. As used in this section, “psychosis” refers to a mental disorder in which:
(i) The individual has manifested delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition; or
(ii) The individual may reasonably be expected to manifest delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition.
(3) A bipolar disorder.
(4) Substance dependence, except where there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. As used in this section—
(i) “Substance” includes: Alcohol; other sedatives and hypnotics; anxiolytics; opioids; central nervous system stimulants such as cocaine, amphetamines, and similarly acting sympathomimetics; hallucinogens; phencyclidine or similarly acting arylcyclohexylamines; cannabis; inhalants; and other psychoactive drugs and chemicals; and
(ii) “Substance dependence” means a condition in which a person is dependent on a substance, other than tobacco or ordinary xanthine-containing (e.g., caffeine) beverages, as evidenced by—
(A) Increased tolerance;
(B) Manifestation of withdrawal symptoms;
(C) Impaired control of use; or
(D) Continued use despite damage to physical health or impairment of social, personal, or occupational functioning.
(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:
(1) Use of a substance in a situation in which that use was physically hazardous, if there has been at any other time an instance of the use of a substance also in a situation in which that use was physically hazardous;
(2) A verified positive drug test result, an alcohol test result of 0.04 or greater alcohol concentration, or a refusal to submit to a drug or alcohol test required by the U.S. Department of Transportation or an agency of the U.S. Department of Transportation; or
(3) Misuse of a substance that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the substance involved, finds—
(i) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or
(ii) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.
(c) No other personality disorder, neurosis, or other mental condition that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds—
(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or
(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.
Taking a quiz is not the same as a clinical evaluation. If you were given a simple anxiety quiz, for example (https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/anxiety-quiz), that does not qualify as or substitute for a clinical evaluation.
The FAA does allow pilots with depression and anxiety to fly, but on an individually evaluated basis; this includes medicated and non-medicated cases, with limitations on what is allowed. The FAA is looking at safety. Depression does not mean you cannot get medical certification, or fly, but specifics, and treatment matter. If you have a history of suicidal ideation (have pondered the idea or been thinkiing about or considering suicide), for example, this represents a threat to you and the public. It also should receive treatment and counseling, for your own wellbeing. Depression can affect bodily function, and can lead to sleep problems and fatigue, which impair judgment and lead to other health issues. Again, such should be treated. Some conditions, such as bipolar disorder, are disqualifying.
AMAS, the aviation medical advisory service, has a page addressing anxiety and varous disorders, including depression. Read over that, and then continue with the discussion:
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/art...gical-support/
12-08-2023, 03:13 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Posts: 562
Mr. Burke has provided excellent information, but it is likely more than you can realistically absorb at this stage. Your easiest path would be to find an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME) and go apply for a First-Class Medical which will put you back $100-200.
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator
Should you walk out of the doctor's office with medical in hand, be firmly prepared to receive a notice of review by the FAA (assuming you answered all the questions truthfully). An acquaintance of mine had this happen (with a different medical issue) while beginning their flight training. Assumed they were in the clear after no indication otherwise was made by the AME, only to receive certified mail from the FAA several weeks later. Luckily, all has been reviewed and the original issuance of said medical stands. Moving on…
The other path, of more resistance, would be to consult a lawyer who specializes in Airman Medicals BEFORE applying for one; i.e. do not complete and submit the questioner to apply for a medical. This will set you back even more money, but depending on how serious you are, it would be a wise investment to make sure: (a) the lawyer believes you have a chance and (b) it is done properly and lawfully. You do not want to lie or otherwise falsify your medical application as that would have much more disastrous consequences depending on how far along you are in your training/career.
Best of luck.
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator
Should you walk out of the doctor's office with medical in hand, be firmly prepared to receive a notice of review by the FAA (assuming you answered all the questions truthfully). An acquaintance of mine had this happen (with a different medical issue) while beginning their flight training. Assumed they were in the clear after no indication otherwise was made by the AME, only to receive certified mail from the FAA several weeks later. Luckily, all has been reviewed and the original issuance of said medical stands. Moving on…
The other path, of more resistance, would be to consult a lawyer who specializes in Airman Medicals BEFORE applying for one; i.e. do not complete and submit the questioner to apply for a medical. This will set you back even more money, but depending on how serious you are, it would be a wise investment to make sure: (a) the lawyer believes you have a chance and (b) it is done properly and lawfully. You do not want to lie or otherwise falsify your medical application as that would have much more disastrous consequences depending on how far along you are in your training/career.
Best of luck.
12-08-2023, 04:28 PM
#6
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,023
Call AMAS. Pay the 50 bucks for an email consult, or the 70 bucks for the phone consult.
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/ser...al-assistance/
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/ser...al-assistance/
12-09-2023, 08:05 AM
#8
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,281
Originally Posted by Airbum
I would not go to a AME without first knowing if I was able to pass. IMO. it would be much better to wait and research then to be denied a medical.
12-21-2023, 03:54 PM
#9
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
This question is better suited to the medical forum.
What you're describing is too generic to merit a specific response, but is a diagnosis. It's unclear what kind of doctor made this diagnosis. Your description sounds like a general practitioner (eg, family doctor) gave you a quiz and decided based on that to diagnose you with anxiety and depression. You don't indicate any subsequent treatment, other than no drugs. Was no therapy or follow-up involved?
Was this situational depression? A singular event tied to something which would elicit a similar reaction in a normal person (divorce, death in the family, significant personal loss or change, etc) might be a stressor leading to a single event. The FAA's position with this is that such an event would be typified by treatment of six months or less (after resolution of the event that led to the depression). A longer period of treatment might be classified as a Major Depressive Disorder, or a significant depressive diagnosis.
You can view the aviaiton medical examiner's decision tool on situational depression: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/...Depression.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/...ision-Tool.pdf
The FAA takes a keen interest in mental disorders (which include depression). Some years ago a pilot made a statement that each time he departed an airport and flew over a cemetary, he said a quiet prayer for his son, who was buried there. The FAA revoked his medical certificate. This may be surprising, but isn't out of line from FAA behaviors; many pilots are very hesitant to admit to anxiety or depression, or other issues that fall in the mental health umbrella (includes emotional health).
If your doctor is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, he or she may not be qualified to make a diagnosis of your condition, but would more appropriately recommend you to a professional who can both assess your condition, and offer treatment solutions. Untreated depression is unhealthy, and potentially dangerous; it has implications in everything from behavior to blood sugar and other physical effects.
Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 67, addresses the FAA legal medical requirements, with 61.107 being the mental requirements for a first class medical certificate:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...section-67.107
Note the beginning of that paragraph which states, "no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of...". Thile minor depression that is situational is something that, with proper documentation, an aviaiton medical examiner could issue a certificate, most other cases will require ore documentation from a treating psychologist, and deferral to the FAA to make a decision. It is very much a case-by-case individual assessment.
Taking a quiz is not the same as a clinical evaluation. If you were given a simple anxiety quiz, for example (https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/anxiety-quiz), that does not qualify as or substitute for a clinical evaluation.
The FAA does allow pilots with depression and anxiety to fly, but on an individually evaluated basis; this includes medicated and non-medicated cases, with limitations on what is allowed. The FAA is looking at safety. Depression does not mean you cannot get medical certification, or fly, but specifics, and treatment matter. If you have a history of suicidal ideation (have pondered the idea or been thinkiing about or considering suicide), for example, this represents a threat to you and the public. It also should receive treatment and counseling, for your own wellbeing. Depression can affect bodily function, and can lead to sleep problems and fatigue, which impair judgment and lead to other health issues. Again, such should be treated. Some conditions, such as bipolar disorder, are disqualifying.
AMAS, the aviation medical advisory service, has a page addressing anxiety and varous disorders, including depression. Read over that, and then continue with the discussion:
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/art...gical-support/
What you're describing is too generic to merit a specific response, but is a diagnosis. It's unclear what kind of doctor made this diagnosis. Your description sounds like a general practitioner (eg, family doctor) gave you a quiz and decided based on that to diagnose you with anxiety and depression. You don't indicate any subsequent treatment, other than no drugs. Was no therapy or follow-up involved?
Was this situational depression? A singular event tied to something which would elicit a similar reaction in a normal person (divorce, death in the family, significant personal loss or change, etc) might be a stressor leading to a single event. The FAA's position with this is that such an event would be typified by treatment of six months or less (after resolution of the event that led to the depression). A longer period of treatment might be classified as a Major Depressive Disorder, or a significant depressive diagnosis.
You can view the aviaiton medical examiner's decision tool on situational depression: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/...Depression.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/...ision-Tool.pdf
The FAA takes a keen interest in mental disorders (which include depression). Some years ago a pilot made a statement that each time he departed an airport and flew over a cemetary, he said a quiet prayer for his son, who was buried there. The FAA revoked his medical certificate. This may be surprising, but isn't out of line from FAA behaviors; many pilots are very hesitant to admit to anxiety or depression, or other issues that fall in the mental health umbrella (includes emotional health).
If your doctor is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, he or she may not be qualified to make a diagnosis of your condition, but would more appropriately recommend you to a professional who can both assess your condition, and offer treatment solutions. Untreated depression is unhealthy, and potentially dangerous; it has implications in everything from behavior to blood sugar and other physical effects.
Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 67, addresses the FAA legal medical requirements, with 61.107 being the mental requirements for a first class medical certificate:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...section-67.107
Note the beginning of that paragraph which states, "no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of...". Thile minor depression that is situational is something that, with proper documentation, an aviaiton medical examiner could issue a certificate, most other cases will require ore documentation from a treating psychologist, and deferral to the FAA to make a decision. It is very much a case-by-case individual assessment.
Taking a quiz is not the same as a clinical evaluation. If you were given a simple anxiety quiz, for example (https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/anxiety-quiz), that does not qualify as or substitute for a clinical evaluation.
The FAA does allow pilots with depression and anxiety to fly, but on an individually evaluated basis; this includes medicated and non-medicated cases, with limitations on what is allowed. The FAA is looking at safety. Depression does not mean you cannot get medical certification, or fly, but specifics, and treatment matter. If you have a history of suicidal ideation (have pondered the idea or been thinkiing about or considering suicide), for example, this represents a threat to you and the public. It also should receive treatment and counseling, for your own wellbeing. Depression can affect bodily function, and can lead to sleep problems and fatigue, which impair judgment and lead to other health issues. Again, such should be treated. Some conditions, such as bipolar disorder, are disqualifying.
AMAS, the aviation medical advisory service, has a page addressing anxiety and varous disorders, including depression. Read over that, and then continue with the discussion:
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/art...gical-support/
I will be consulting with a HIMS AME but wanted to see if anyone has gone through a similar experience
12-22-2023, 04:13 PM
#10
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,023
Your primary care physician didn't prescribe, because he or she isn't qualified to do so. A referral would have been the appropriate course.
Before you talk to an AME, you would be very wise to seek consultation with an outside source, as previously described.
Before you talk to an AME, you would be very wise to seek consultation with an outside source, as previously described.
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