FAA medical division pursuing DISMISSED DWI
 

Hi all, I'm new here I just made an account last night after finding this website. I posted this in another thread but I just figured I'd go ahead and make a new thread about it

I have a question for y'all pertaining my alleged DWI that the FAA is trying to screw me over with.

When the DWI event happened on March 27 2014 I was a student pilot with a first class medical, November of 2014 I received my private pilot certificate, December private multi, January 2015 instrument rating all while I dealt with all the BS legal process of the dwi case. In February 2015 my DWI case was dismissed and in April 2015 I had all my records expunged (meaning there is no court documents, police report with BAC). March 2015 I received commercial multi and may 9th 2015 commercial single engine. On May 5th 2015 I applied to get another 1st class medical and reported that I was arrested (not convicted) for a DWI and explained that it was later dismissed and expunged. At that time my AME said it was no big deal and the FAA will probably just ask me for some information regarding that. On June 22nd I believe it was I received a letter from the FAA medical branch with them asking me to send all court documents, arrest record, and police report etc.. So I responded to their letting with a letter explaining my situation as to what happened and that it was dismissed and expunged and I also sent all the documentation that I have available to me that I collected over time throughout the legal process which included: court ordered pretrial supervision, the arrest ticket, driver license suspension, court dismissal document, and the expunction agreement. Now on august 10th I finally hear back from them via letter and it's claiming that I submitted insufficient information regarding the case and I have 60 days to go visit a HIMS AME, make a addendum to my written statement that I had already provided stating past/current/future alcohol usage and BAC at the time of arrest(which I have no clue what it was and I have no way of finding out). Lastly they're requesting a copy of my driving record for the past 10years.

The reason I'm posting this is because I'm really confused. First off, how is the information I submitted insufficient when all the paperwork I have is all that is available due to the expunction? Secondly, I had a consultation with a HIMS AME yesterday and he's claiming the FAA will probably want me to submit to a total of 14 random alcohol tests throughout a period of 14 months or so. Why? I'm not an alcoholic, I do not have a drinking problem, sure I have a few beers occasionally but still, I was NEVER convicted of any dwi. Why am I having to pay more money after that at least $10,000 I spent to have the damn thing dismissed? Total BS if you ask me. Sure, I made one mistake and now I'm labeled as an alcoholic... Why is the FAA going out of their way to pursue this "DWI" that I was never even convicted of and that technically doesn't even exist! Anyone have any advice?

Thanks - Chad.

Hey now everyone makes mistakes(and I made a huge one by drinking and driving but luckily it was dismissed), sure I drink a beer or 4 every now and then but I'm not alcohol dependent. And that actually has been proven because I had to wear a SCRAM(Secure Continuous Remote Alcohol Monitoring) device on my ankle for over 100 days with no violations. At the time of the event I wasn't apart of AOPA and I was told they wouldn't help unless I was a member then. But I do have my own attorney, I just wanted to bring my story here to see what y'all opinions are. :p

My opinion is that you made one of the costliest bad decisions that a pilot can make. Prior to this incident, did you not know how the FAA views alcohol related offenses? Welcome to the world of a pilot. They aren't targeting YOU, you are going through the same process that anyone in your situation would be undergoing. It is a long and painful (and as you are learning) expensive process. Is it still worth it to you to go through with the requirements to fly? If so....in the future, and especially if you plan on making a career/life out of the professional pilot world - you need to rethink you're 'I have one or 4 beers when I'm out' mentality. It just isn't worth it in the long run. Save those 1-4 beers when you're at home watching the game or at a minimum when you aren't driving.

I sent you a private message, Chad.

"Expunged" does not mean that those records have been destroyed. The arresting and prosecuting agencies along with your attorney all have copies of all of the information that the FAA needs.

I'd start with the attorney that you used during the case.

The only records that are available are the limited copies I have that I stated in my original post though, if the other records haven't been destroyed they're going against a court agreement to do so. Even if they haven't destroyed them yet they aren't available to anyone, even the FAA.

Yes, I did make one of the worst decisions of my life at the time. Why wouldn't it be worth it to follow my dreams/goals? Yes it may be expensive (and it already is) but that doesn't mean it's going to stop me from doing what I want to do. Just because I say I have a few drinks when I go out which is maybe one time a week at the most!! doesn't mean I still drink and drive... Don't be so quick to judge. I made one bad decision and I learned A LOT and made some life changes during that period of my life. I would never drink and drive again in my entire life time.

No court documents are ever destroyed on purpose. Expunged really just means they become legally inaccessible to the great majority of people, with exceptions. If you were ever to apply for a job at a law enforcement agency, for example, that agency would have access to expunged records.

You're awful defensive.
I wasn't judging.
I was giving you advice.

But let's talk about your attitude then CHAD if you want judgement.

"I made one bad decision"..............so you're going to tell us that this is the first time you've been out drinking and driving?
Having been YOU in a past life - I seriously doubt that is the truth.
Maybe it is..............but let's play the high side of statistics.
This is the first time you've been caught.

Why was the charge dismissed?
Dealing with, and being around a lot of lawyers, I certainly know that a case being dimissed certainly doesn't always mean that you weren't drinking and driving (you've already admitted you were) or that you weren't legally drunk.
Thinking back on this did you get a lucky break? I did once and it certainly changed my perspective.

I'm glad you say that aren't going to drink and drive in your entire lifetime.
I hope you can hold to that. Is is actually OK if you do if you do it smartly. The law doesn't required you to abstain from alcohol. I work with, and fly with, many people who have a beer on the road when we are flying. I myself decided around 25+ years ago that it wasn't worth giving up my chance to fly in the military to have a beer with my pizza, nor is it worth the pain and expense to go through what you are dealing with now to have that same beer - - - so I do abstain from drinking on the road.

As far as who has access to those records that you are so sure are destroyed or sealed away in a vault somewhere - I suggest that you learn a little more about who can, and can't, access those records. It isn't as cut and dry as you seem to think it is - and issues of public safety are given room to maneuver when it comes to gaining access to all sorts of records.

Why do I say that you have a decision to make whether you still want to be a professional pilot? Because you are seeing how finicky the profession can be. You are highly scrutinized and actions that you might take in other field that wouldn't raise an eyebrow make a big splash in the world of professional aviation - and liquor seems to be a leading problem.

On the final attitude check I'll suggest that you refrain from the "that the FAA is trying to screw me over with." You are the one drinking and driving. It wasn't the cops hunting you down, it wasn't the lawyers jonesing to put you away in prison, it wasn't the judge trying to make an example out of you. You got caught doing something illegal that happens to be on everyone's most sensitive radar screen (and often for good reason).
In the future, when you go on interview and you asked about this - the attitude that you have portrayed in the thread thus far will get you shown the door. This is the part that you want o concentrate on:

I was told by my own lawyer and even the country clerk when I tried to retrieve my own person documents that they were to be incinerated. That's the entire point of an expunction to have no record of it at all. Not accessible by anyone.

I'm really having a hard time believing that the records in question were incinerated. I have some experience in these maters and I'll bet dollars to donuts that -at the very least- the law enforcement agency in question still has the arrest report.

USMCFLYR, I do apologize for coming off so defensive as I'm just stuck between a rock and a hard place due to a poor decision I made.

The case was dismissed due to "State cannot reach burden of BRD" (beyond reasonable doubt). The arresting police officer lied on the police report and lied under oath in court.

This is the first time and last time that driving while drunk will ever happen for me. I have no issues not drinking at all as I was required to while I wore a SCRAM (secure continuous remote alcohol monitoring) ankle device as I was ordered to by the judge and I had no violations. But time as passed since the entire ordeal and of course like almost anyone will have a drink or two. But not drive that's for sure lol.

And the attitude about the FAA is just my feelings because that's what it seems like, I do know this is standard protocol for them.

I'm just going by what I was told, they did agree to destroy it and I have the signature to prove it... But, if what you said is true then should they be required to provide it to me by request? Since it is my record after all.

My expunction agreement states:

(1) the petition for expunction filed in the above captioned cause is GRANTED, and all records of the petitioner's arrest in the above cause including all records of petitioner's prosecution for this offense are expunged; and all the release, dissemination or use of records pertaining to such arrests and prosecutions is prohibited;

(2) the respondents shall return all records and files concerning the above-specified arrest to this court, or if removal is impractical, obliterate all portions if the records or files that identify the petitioner, including all computer entries and notify the court of it's action;

(3)the respondents shall delete from their records all index references to the records and files that are subject to this expunction order;

(4) the respondent district clerk shall not permit inspection of the court records concerning this expunction proceeding by any person other than the petitioner herein or petitioners attorney, and shall obliterate all public references to this proceeding and maintain the files and all other records in an area not open to inspection;

(6) the respondent district clerk shall destroy all such files and records returned to it pursuant to this order on the first anniversary date the order for expunction was issued

So it hasn't been destroyed YET(April will be the year anniversary of the expunction), but there is no access to it.

Different jurisdictions may have different policies on expunction...destruction of records wouldbe rare but possible.

Please note that the FBI tracks all significant arrests and convictions and state/local expunction would NOT affect FBI records. Military, law enforcement, government and airlines can access that database so expunction probably doesn't mean what you think as far as airlines go.

You need to stop arguing here and work with your lawyer, in private. This is not a truly anonymous board...

I will second RickAir's statement. I had a good friend who had a DWI "expunged" a few years back. He spent a fortune doing so. Lo and behold, when he interviewed with Continential (like I said a while ago) they magically had the expunged report. He was more than qualified and a really great guy; but they showed him the door. A friend of his was on the hiring committee and later told him if he had admitted to the offense and showed true remorse, they would have hired him. He lied on the "arrested for" (arrested for/charged with/convicted of) section of the interview, that tanked him, not his mistake.

Just my .02 with a story attached for illustration.

RadialGal

Yep. Lawyer up.

Instead of starting a new topic I'll just ask here. I was arrested for a DWI in 2011. Mine was also eventually dismissed but it took several years for that to happen, although I was definitely drunk when I was arrested. In the mean time I decided to get out of flying and get my life back in order. I went to a treatment facility and have been active in AA since. I recently reapplied for a new medical, I thought I could live without flying but I can't. I'm sure many here feel the same. I received a letter requesting all the documentation from the incident and my recovery process. I've sent all of the requested info in.

My question is what are my chances? I've heard to seek out a HIMMS? examiner but there isn't one in my area. How long should I expect to wait and are there any other hoops I should expect to have to jump through?

Thanks for the responses guys, just talked to the HIMS AME I had to visit... Looks like all they want is my personal statement now and they're going to close the case. Although for some reason the HIMS AME wants to do another physical even though the 1st class medical I have now is still valid. Do y'all think this is necessary? I just don't see why lol but I'll submit to his recommendation anyways and do what he says.

With all due respect to the original poster, given the adjectives that you used to describe your "dilemma", trust me...a HIMS AME would not recommend that you be medically certified and that you seek treatment. Remember, these guys are trained behavioral and speech analyst. They can see past "our" BS...as you stated. Oh, yes, and btw, I did say "our".

Don't get me wrong, I hope that you retain or regain your medical and enjoy a long career. By no means, do I wish you any bad luck, however....a little humility goes a long way. JMO.


atp

Maybe it's time to develop a taste for coke or pepsi. I gave up alcohol over 5 years ago, not because I had a problem with alcohol but my body stopped processing alcohol the way it had been doing but instead gave me horrible hangovers, sleep issues just to name a few. I decided to quit and see if I felt better. I sleep well now and wake up feeling like I can accomplish anything. Just my .02

So I should avoid "renewing" my medical like he's suggestion I do? My medical has yet to be denied or suspended. He told me he wanted to help me out as much as he can, and notified me via email that he recommends doing another medical with him so he can report no signs of alcohol usage.

Just to be clear, just because I got arrested for a DWI does not mean I have an alcohol dependency problem. Maybe you did at the time and your body had enough of it, you can't compare your problems to my current situation with the FAA as what you stated and my matter are two completely different situation. I have no health issues.

But the FAA doesn't know that, and will assume the worst until proven otherwise. And yes "guilty until proven innocent" is perfectly legal in regards to aviation medical certification...flying is legally a privilege, not a right and public safety comes before your personal needs/desires/wants in aviation.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct... I have been told that by both my lawyer and HIMS AME, the HIMS AME also tells me that the medical division likes to help pilots get back in the air... Lol. I had another visit with my HIMS AME, and it looks like it's going to end with no denial or anything. They're just going to be sending me a letter in the mail giving the the "ok" to re apply for a new medical next year when the time comes to renew my 1st class(I'm having a brain fart and can't remember what they call it).

Good news guys, just received my letter of eligibility today from the FAA. Looks like my medical won't be revoked or suspended, everything worked out in my favor. Won't be needing another medical until the time comes around to renew my 1st class.

Interesting thread. According to my AME, it does not matter what the outcome of any alcohol related driving offense (charge) is. To the FAA they are all the same in that they exist and MUST be reported. He did tell me something important and that is if you SHOULD ever end up in the unfortunate position of being stopped and given sobriety tests, NEVER refuse the request for a blood alcohol test. The FAA considers this a very serious infraction and elevates the situation to a whole different level in their eyes and will make it MUCH harder to jump through certification hoops in the future.

Just FYI.

The FAA just wants to know if you have a substance problem. They know that convictions/acquittals/charges dropped/diverted/plead down really have more to do with the vagaries of the legal system (and how much you spend on lawyers) than whether or how drunk you were. The fact that you got arrested indicates that you almost certainly drank (at least a little) and drove, so the fact of the arrest is going to trigger their need to dig deeper into the situation. The only legal finding that might help with FAA aeromedical is if a court makes a formal (and very rare) finding of "innocent", which is to say the court determined that a big mistake was made (or you were framed, etc) and that you never should have been arrested/charged/hassled at all.

Nixon claimed not to be a crook too. The first step in treatment is admitting you have a problem.

Get a good lawyer.