Originally Posted by FlyingSlowly

Let's not get alarmist. PBS would require a MAJOR revision of the contract. The pilot group has to get a say in the matter.

It's not a "little" change that can be addressed in an LOA...

Originally Posted by JayBee

SAP, as we know it is going away.

Don't know why but that statement of fact gets people's panties in a bunch...

Are we supposed to have a SAP with PBS ? Yes. Does anyone know what that means ? No. (unless they a super secret access badge in which case they can't/won't talk about it...)

So yea, we will get a sales pitch along the lines of "you won't need to SAP because PBS will give you what you want...". As I understand it, with no official word from our Union, the pairings do not change. PBS doesn't fix anything, it is just a different bidding system.

We already have the ability to sort lines based on our preference and once the computer sorts them we can manually select or deselect in our order of preference because the sort doesn't give you exactly what you want.

With PBS, the computer will sort it and autoselect it for us. If you don't get it right people will say "you got to learn how to use it better" as if you were stupid, just fell off the turnip truck and this was your first day on the job. The fact of the matter is PBS has this feature called "unstacking" where it will force stuff on you. A lot of it depends on the contract language with how well PBS will or will not work for us.

I'll reserve judgement until I actually see it but based on the very poor language of our current contract and LoA's with "unintended consequences" I do not have my hopes very high. I hope that I am completely wrong but I am not holding my breath.

Originally Posted by TallFlyer

Let me be very direct about a few things.

- The company does not get PBS without major ALPA involvement in building pairings, and soft pay gains.
- The company does not get PBS without major ALPA involvement in running that PBS, to include ALPA access to every under the hood parameter that the company gets access to.

This has never, and never will be, tossing the company the keys to PBS and hoping it works out.

Yes, an initial PBS award will give senior people what they want ahead of junior people (as it should be) but we don’t yet know the specifics of what SAP will look like in a PBS world. Feel free to judge ALPA then. Both the company and ALPA are clear that SAP is not going away. What EXACTLY the parameters will be in the future we don’t know.

In the meantime, wait until the reserve rules come out and judge us from there.

To add: if you know the kind of data that gets posted on BSL, in the future I want to bring that kind of data and transparency to trips / scheduling, etc.


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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules

Min 14 days off for reserve Pilots and a duty rig of 1:1 or I’m not impressed.

Originally Posted by TallFlyer

Let me be very direct about a few things.

- The company does not get PBS without major ALPA involvement in building pairings, and soft pay gains.
- The company does not get PBS without major ALPA involvement in running that PBS, to include ALPA access to every under the hood parameter that the company gets access to.

This has never, and never will be, tossing the company the keys to PBS and hoping it works out.

Yes, an initial PBS award will give senior people what they want ahead of junior people (as it should be) but we don’t yet know the specifics of what SAP will look like in a PBS world. Feel free to judge ALPA then. Both the company and ALPA are clear that SAP is not going away. What EXACTLY the parameters will be in the future we don’t know.

In the meantime, wait until the reserve rules come out and judge us from there.


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Originally Posted by TallFlyer

Let me be very direct about a few things.

- The company does not get PBS without major ALPA involvement in building pairings, and soft pay gains.
- The company does not get PBS without major ALPA involvement in running that PBS, to include ALPA access to every under the hood parameter that the company gets access to.

This has never, and never will be, tossing the company the keys to PBS and hoping it works out.

Yes, an initial PBS award will give senior people what they want ahead of junior people (as it should be) but we don’t yet know the specifics of what SAP will look like in a PBS world. Feel free to judge ALPA then. Both the company and ALPA are clear that SAP is not going away. What EXACTLY the parameters will be in the future we don’t know.

In the meantime, wait until the reserve rules come out and judge us from there.


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Originally Posted by Hardcharger

Just to make sure I'm correct in what I'm asking here.... soft pay = bonuses

Hard pay = permanent pay increases not predicated on bonuses, correct?



Why would we give the company PBS for anything less than bona fide industry leading pay rates, or very near to that?