Is SAP going away?
03-18-2018, 07:26 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by TallFlyer
My general issue with you post was it was the typical wishy washy statements that we see on here with no faith in ALPA to manage and operate this, the company will just keep producing crap trips, the company will just give us our schedule and that’ll be it, etc.
We’ve got some very smart people on the initial stages of this thing, and soon will have to bring in some more. Baby steps.
And quite frankly, can’t argue about the girlfriend thing. I really need to get back to CLT.
We’ve got some very smart people on the initial stages of this thing, and soon will have to bring in some more. Baby steps.
And quite frankly, can’t argue about the girlfriend thing. I really need to get back to CLT.
Not sure how you arrived at wishy-washy but ok. I was going for cautiously optimistic with a dash of skepticism based on prior performance but to each and all their own.
In all seriousness though -
-"unstacking" needs to be seriously addressed thoroughly with very strong language - that is the only way you will "get what you ask for"
-I'm sorry your take away from what I said was I didn't think the people working on it didn't have good intentions or were not smart. That said, if we don't learn from our past then we are our own worst enemies. As you said, soft language. The unclear language opening "loopholes" that the company is "free to interpret in their favor" has got to stop. A union that simply tells a constituent that "the company is free to interpret..." and not stick up for the employees point of view has got to stop. The general low morale, sloppy dress and uncaring attitude is a reflection (right or wrong - wrong in this case) of the employees perception that the company does indeed not care, will always "interpret to their benefit" and that the union will not back them.
Again, I'm sorry if that upsets you because I know you are a very hard working dude that is doing his best but if you want the employees to put the company first then they have to feel like they are partners not something stuck to the bottom of management's shoe. This problem is exacerbated by the appearance of the Union working in a vacuum. There's plenty of smart people out here with good ideas too. Oh ? We'll slow down negotiations ? What's the hurry I would ask, a good deal today will still be a good deal tomorrow. The whole "you didn't bother to turn out to vote for a representative so we must be doing a good job" line wouldn't pass the filter of a 6th grade level logic class.
When I have a choice to operate off of facts or faith, I'm going with facts. Change the facts and people will find faith.
03-20-2018, 04:45 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,483
Originally Posted by JayBee
Glad to see you have some humility
Not sure how you arrived at wishy-washy but ok. I was going for cautiously optimistic with a dash of skepticism based on prior performance but to each and all their own.
In all seriousness though -
-"unstacking" needs to be seriously addressed thoroughly with very strong language - that is the only way you will "get what you ask for"
-"unstacking" needs to be seriously addressed thoroughly with very strong language - that is the only way you will "get what you ask for"
-I'm sorry your take away from what I said was I didn't think the people working on it didn't have good intentions or were not smart. That said, if we don't learn from our past then we are our own worst enemies. As you said, soft language. The unclear language opening "loopholes" that the company is "free to interpret in their favor" has got to stop. A union that simply tells a constituent that "the company is free to interpret..." and not stick up for the employees point of view has got to stop. The general low morale, sloppy dress and uncaring attitude is a reflection (right or wrong - wrong in this case) of the employees perception that the company does indeed not care, will always "interpret to their benefit" and that the union will not back them.
Also, it's worth considering that the relationship between ALPA and the company was far more contentious during the entire period that Contract 2013 was written. Currently, KS has been a HUGE improvement over prior occupants of that building. We're going to keep building on that.
Again, I'm sorry if that upsets you because I know you are a very hard working dude that is doing his best but if you want the employees to put the company first then they have to feel like they are partners not something stuck to the bottom of management's shoe. This problem is exacerbated by the appearance of the Union working in a vacuum. There's plenty of smart people out here with good ideas too. Oh ? We'll slow down negotiations ? What's the hurry I would ask, a good deal today will still be a good deal tomorrow. The whole "you didn't bother to turn out to vote for a representative so we must be doing a good job" line wouldn't pass the filter of a 6th grade level logic class.
Want to help? We lose a lot of guys in the near future. Just today as I was boarding a flight I was talking about to our Contract Enforcement Chair, and he expressed a strong need for at least 4 more bodies. Are you a contract nerd? Good at answering lots of emails while on overnights? Sign up on psa.alpa.org.
Free plug for the company, but saw an old TYS buddy in the terminal at about the same time, on his way to LCA training. He flows in 5ish months. That could tell you something about their needs. There's also going to be more CP slots to fill soon as those guys move on. Helping pilots is not just limited to being an ALPA volunteer, as some of my conversations with our new CVG/DAY CP over the last two days have proven. His desk is actually in the OCC instead of the crewroom. He's also a new hire classmate of mine. So is the DCA CP. I know people.....
When I have a choice to operate off of facts or faith, I'm going with facts. Change the facts and people will find faith.
03-20-2018, 07:55 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,294
Originally Posted by TallFlyer
Personal / Dating Life right now = train wreck, but there's a light at the end of this tunnel. Those that know me personally know why, and also why all this ALPA stuff is keeping me sane right now. And quite frankly, it genuinely is interesting.
To me it read like the usual litany of complaints without any facts, just the collective fears of a pilot group without a lot of facts behind it. I can't speak to specifics, but we're working hard to bring some unequivocal big wins to the pilot group, and I hope that gives us some more of the street cred we're looking for.
The how's, whys, nuts, and bolts of the entire process will be examined and looked it. In the end, an ALPA person WILL be involved with the month to month operation. No other outcome is going to be satisfactory. If there's any high numbered 25xxx or higher emp number that wants to be involved in this down the road, we're going to be looking for you towards the end of the year. Quite frankly, everyone else flows to soon, and we need people who can genuinely learn this stuff inside and out, but also be willing to teach and mentor the guys that come after them in this hiring / flow environment.
While your point is not entirely without merit, Section 26.U of the contract still exists. In short, management runs the business as they see fit. The specific interactions with the pilot group we speak to to the best of our ability.
Also, it's worth considering that the relationship between ALPA and the company was far more contentious during the entire period that Contract 2013 was written. Currently, KS has been a HUGE improvement over prior occupants of that building. We're going to keep building on that.
I'm a union guy. If pilots upset me I'm in the wrong business..... But at the same time, I do take a lot of comments from the pilot group, I do try and give a lot of feedback (honestly, sometimes more than TR would like), and I don't feel like we're working in a vacuum.
Want to help? We lose a lot of guys in the near future. Just today as I was boarding a flight I was talking about to our Contract Enforcement Chair, and he expressed a strong need for at least 4 more bodies. Are you a contract nerd? Good at answering lots of emails while on overnights? Sign up on psa.alpa.org.
Free plug for the company, but saw an old TYS buddy in the terminal at about the same time, on his way to LCA training. He flows in 5ish months. That could tell you something about their needs. There's also going to be more CP slots to fill soon as those guys move on. Helping pilots is not just limited to being an ALPA volunteer, as some of my conversations with our new CVG/DAY CP over the last two days have proven. His desk is actually in the OCC instead of the crewroom. He's also a new hire classmate of mine. So is the DCA CP. I know people.....
If you know who I am, you know I deal in facts, particularly numbers. All those charts with pretty colors on some other site? I aim to do the same thing with trips, PBS, etc, when we get to that point. Working on it.
To me it read like the usual litany of complaints without any facts, just the collective fears of a pilot group without a lot of facts behind it. I can't speak to specifics, but we're working hard to bring some unequivocal big wins to the pilot group, and I hope that gives us some more of the street cred we're looking for.
The how's, whys, nuts, and bolts of the entire process will be examined and looked it. In the end, an ALPA person WILL be involved with the month to month operation. No other outcome is going to be satisfactory. If there's any high numbered 25xxx or higher emp number that wants to be involved in this down the road, we're going to be looking for you towards the end of the year. Quite frankly, everyone else flows to soon, and we need people who can genuinely learn this stuff inside and out, but also be willing to teach and mentor the guys that come after them in this hiring / flow environment.
While your point is not entirely without merit, Section 26.U of the contract still exists. In short, management runs the business as they see fit. The specific interactions with the pilot group we speak to to the best of our ability.
Also, it's worth considering that the relationship between ALPA and the company was far more contentious during the entire period that Contract 2013 was written. Currently, KS has been a HUGE improvement over prior occupants of that building. We're going to keep building on that.
I'm a union guy. If pilots upset me I'm in the wrong business..... But at the same time, I do take a lot of comments from the pilot group, I do try and give a lot of feedback (honestly, sometimes more than TR would like), and I don't feel like we're working in a vacuum.
Want to help? We lose a lot of guys in the near future. Just today as I was boarding a flight I was talking about to our Contract Enforcement Chair, and he expressed a strong need for at least 4 more bodies. Are you a contract nerd? Good at answering lots of emails while on overnights? Sign up on psa.alpa.org.
Free plug for the company, but saw an old TYS buddy in the terminal at about the same time, on his way to LCA training. He flows in 5ish months. That could tell you something about their needs. There's also going to be more CP slots to fill soon as those guys move on. Helping pilots is not just limited to being an ALPA volunteer, as some of my conversations with our new CVG/DAY CP over the last two days have proven. His desk is actually in the OCC instead of the crewroom. He's also a new hire classmate of mine. So is the DCA CP. I know people.....
If you know who I am, you know I deal in facts, particularly numbers. All those charts with pretty colors on some other site? I aim to do the same thing with trips, PBS, etc, when we get to that point. Working on it.
03-21-2018, 02:55 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by TallFlyer
Personal / Dating Life right now = train wreck, but there's a light at the end of this tunnel. Those that know me personally know why, and also why all this ALPA stuff is keeping me sane right now. And quite frankly, it genuinely is interesting.
To me it read like the usual litany of complaints without any facts, just the collective fears of a pilot group without a lot of facts behind it. I can't speak to specifics, but we're working hard to bring some unequivocal big wins to the pilot group, and I hope that gives us some more of the street cred we're looking for.
The how's, whys, nuts, and bolts of the entire process will be examined and looked it. In the end, an ALPA person WILL be involved with the month to month operation. No other outcome is going to be satisfactory. If there's any high numbered 25xxx or higher emp number that wants to be involved in this down the road, we're going to be looking for you towards the end of the year. Quite frankly, everyone else flows to soon, and we need people who can genuinely learn this stuff inside and out, but also be willing to teach and mentor the guys that come after them in this hiring / flow environment.
While your point is not entirely without merit, Section 26.U of the contract still exists. In short, management runs the business as they see fit. The specific interactions with the pilot group we speak to to the best of our ability.
Also, it's worth considering that the relationship between ALPA and the company was far more contentious during the entire period that Contract 2013 was written. Currently, KS has been a HUGE improvement over prior occupants of that building. We're going to keep building on that.
I'm a union guy. If pilots upset me I'm in the wrong business..... But at the same time, I do take a lot of comments from the pilot group, I do try and give a lot of feedback (honestly, sometimes more than TR would like), and I don't feel like we're working in a vacuum.
Want to help? We lose a lot of guys in the near future. Just today as I was boarding a flight I was talking about to our Contract Enforcement Chair, and he expressed a strong need for at least 4 more bodies. Are you a contract nerd? Good at answering lots of emails while on overnights? Sign up on psa.alpa.org.
Free plug for the company, but saw an old TYS buddy in the terminal at about the same time, on his way to LCA training. He flows in 5ish months. That could tell you something about their needs. There's also going to be more CP slots to fill soon as those guys move on. Helping pilots is not just limited to being an ALPA volunteer, as some of my conversations with our new CVG/DAY CP over the last two days have proven. His desk is actually in the OCC instead of the crewroom. He's also a new hire classmate of mine. So is the DCA CP. I know people.....
If you know who I am, you know I deal in facts, particularly numbers. All those charts with pretty colors on some other site? I aim to do the same thing with trips, PBS, etc, when we get to that point. Working on it.
To me it read like the usual litany of complaints without any facts, just the collective fears of a pilot group without a lot of facts behind it. I can't speak to specifics, but we're working hard to bring some unequivocal big wins to the pilot group, and I hope that gives us some more of the street cred we're looking for.
The how's, whys, nuts, and bolts of the entire process will be examined and looked it. In the end, an ALPA person WILL be involved with the month to month operation. No other outcome is going to be satisfactory. If there's any high numbered 25xxx or higher emp number that wants to be involved in this down the road, we're going to be looking for you towards the end of the year. Quite frankly, everyone else flows to soon, and we need people who can genuinely learn this stuff inside and out, but also be willing to teach and mentor the guys that come after them in this hiring / flow environment.
While your point is not entirely without merit, Section 26.U of the contract still exists. In short, management runs the business as they see fit. The specific interactions with the pilot group we speak to to the best of our ability.
Also, it's worth considering that the relationship between ALPA and the company was far more contentious during the entire period that Contract 2013 was written. Currently, KS has been a HUGE improvement over prior occupants of that building. We're going to keep building on that.
I'm a union guy. If pilots upset me I'm in the wrong business..... But at the same time, I do take a lot of comments from the pilot group, I do try and give a lot of feedback (honestly, sometimes more than TR would like), and I don't feel like we're working in a vacuum.
Want to help? We lose a lot of guys in the near future. Just today as I was boarding a flight I was talking about to our Contract Enforcement Chair, and he expressed a strong need for at least 4 more bodies. Are you a contract nerd? Good at answering lots of emails while on overnights? Sign up on psa.alpa.org.
Free plug for the company, but saw an old TYS buddy in the terminal at about the same time, on his way to LCA training. He flows in 5ish months. That could tell you something about their needs. There's also going to be more CP slots to fill soon as those guys move on. Helping pilots is not just limited to being an ALPA volunteer, as some of my conversations with our new CVG/DAY CP over the last two days have proven. His desk is actually in the OCC instead of the crewroom. He's also a new hire classmate of mine. So is the DCA CP. I know people.....
If you know who I am, you know I deal in facts, particularly numbers. All those charts with pretty colors on some other site? I aim to do the same thing with trips, PBS, etc, when we get to that point. Working on it.
03-22-2018, 03:18 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 608
If it wasn't clear already, I echo what was just said TallFlyer - thank you tremendously for all your hard work & transparency - it is very appreciated.
While I am admittedly bellyaching, I do hope to and wish for things to be better. All in all, this is a pretty decent place to work.
Maybe when I get back from deployment I will have some free time to volunteer.
While I am admittedly bellyaching, I do hope to and wish for things to be better. All in all, this is a pretty decent place to work.
Maybe when I get back from deployment I will have some free time to volunteer.
03-23-2018, 07:13 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by Al Czervik
Watch it guys. You’ll get hammered with PBS. Someone said it, SAP as you know it will be gone.
I hope that PBS does in fact give you what you want the first time to be honest because I don't particularly like bidding around SAP day and spending my day off glued to the computer hoping to get a livable schedule.
That said, airline apps updated weekly
03-23-2018, 07:18 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by FlyingSlowly
Simple solution used at other airlines:
Trip Rigs & Duty Rigs
[These mean that if the company doesn't use pilots efficiently, they still have to pay for them...Effectively forces the company to use pilots more efficiently.]
Trip Rigs & Duty Rigs
[These mean that if the company doesn't use pilots efficiently, they still have to pay for them...Effectively forces the company to use pilots more efficiently.]
I say this to everyone I fly with.
Sadly most people just don't get it. I don't know if they choose to remain ignorant or just really enjoy having their MinDay carved out.
I've written my rep asking for Trip and Duty Rigs and I've called the All Call asking the same.
Its in the companies best interest for us to have max block time with minimum duty time. That's called efficient utilization of resources. Due to the nature of Regional flying and podunk airports that is a tough one to pull off. We can all dream however of 6 hours credit with 8 hours duty and 24 hour four days with late starts and early finishes...
03-23-2018, 08:00 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 469
Originally Posted by Al Czervik
Watch it guys. You’ll get hammered with PBS. Someone said it, SAP as you know it will be gone.
That said, this also requires very junior people to grow a brain and realize that just because you're number 180 out of 180 FOs (or CAs) means that you're not automatically entitled to every weekend, holiday, and triple coupon Tuesday off. Welcome to the airlines. You too will be senior one day.
ALPA also needs to grow a set and realize that if TR tries to shove this thing through without a big flow increase, compensation increase, soft pay improvements, and other serious QOL improvements beyond whatever rumored Reserve improvement LOA, that the MEC is going to get their heads taken off when a bunch of ****ed off people realize that there actually is a recall procedure in the ALPA Constitution and By Laws.
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