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-   -   Food For Thought: An Exclusively WO Future? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/psa-airlines/113468-food-thought-exclusively-wo-future.html)

FlyingSlowly 05-06-2018 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by Quarryman (Post 2586826)
At least two contractors to keep the WOs in line if need be by using ye ol' whipsaw.

Pilots at the WOs are awfully good at letting themselves be whipsawed against each other too...

TallFlyer 05-06-2018 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by FlyingSlowly (Post 2587622)
Pilots at the WOs are awfully good at letting themselves be whipsawed against each other too...

Yeah, all those continual gains for the last three years for all three pilot groups are great examples of that.

Brinary01 05-07-2018 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 2586742)
I think the future for the American Eagle flying is this:

Envoy
PSA
Piedmont
Republic
SkyWest

Any of the others I would say are no guarantee. Maybe Mesa? But I see them struggling.

A business minded person would not continue to let profits leak to what are effectively competitors. X jet and TSA are losing that flying because they can not maintain it. Why isn’t Mesa going away? Because, they are, SOME WAY, still staffing the planes they are given to fly. I think you got a hint in the last town hall. Dion wants us to take more long haul routes. My guess is that American wants to take all the most lucrative routes for its WO companies, and leave the less popular routes with smaller margins to other reagionals. That would be the schrewd move. So as for who gets the flying the WOs don’t want in the end? Who ever will accept the crappy flying and can afford to operate like that, SkyWest will probably not accept that, Republic is probably a little more in-elastic, but my guess is what ever the bosom feeder airline of the day is.

272922 05-07-2018 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by Brinary01 (Post 2588290)
A business minded person would not continue to let profits leak to what are effectively competitors. X jet and TSA are losing that flying because they can not maintain it. Why isn’t Mesa going away? Because, they are, SOME WAY, still staffing the planes they are given to fly. I think you got a hint in the last town hall. Dion wants us to take more long haul routes. My guess is that American wants to take all the most lucrative routes for its WO companies, and leave the less popular routes with smaller margins to other reagionals. That would be the schrewd move. So as for who gets the flying the WOs don’t want in the end? Who ever will accept the crappy flying and can afford to operate like that, SkyWest will probably not accept that, Republic is probably a little more in-elastic, but my guess is what ever the bosom feeder airline of the day is.

Two things:

1. "shrewd"

2. Apparently you've never heard management tell us that the reason our schedules are so crappy is that because carriers like RAH, MAF, etc, get first dibs on flying because its less expensive that way to AAG.

Gee, must be nice to have trip and duty rigs like RAH so that its more cost effective to give them better flying.

Skyhawkdriver34 05-07-2018 03:32 PM

This is what I came up with. I also think one day that PSA will take over Skywest and Mesa operations, but that will take a while to happen. Finally, I think that Envoy and Piedmont will merge. Anyone agree?

Envoy Air
140/145 15 (Trans State to Envoy)
140/145 75 ??? Maybe
175 20 (Compass to Envoy)
175 44 + 10 + 15 + (61) = 130
240
PSA Airlines
200 35
700 22 (Envoy to PSA)
700 39
900 54 + 15 + (15) = 84
200 -35 (Retirement)
145
Piedmont Airlines
145 13 (Envoy to Piedmont)
145 4 (Envoy to Piedmont)
Assuming they can staff 4 more
145 43
60

Total WO Aircraft 445

SkyWest
700 39
700 12 (ExpressJet to SkyWest)
Mesa
900 64
Republic
175 85

Total Regional Aircraft 645

Contract Expires
Compass (End of 2019)
SkyWest
Mesa
Republic

CRJ 700 112
CRJ 900 148
ERJ 140/145 150
ERJ 175 235

112 + 148 = 260 CRJs
150 (-55) + 235 = 330 ERJs

55 ERJ145s Retire
American only wants 590 regional aircraft

WesternSkies 05-07-2018 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by Brinary01 (Post 2588290)
A business minded person would not continue to let profits leak to what are effectively competitors. X jet and TSA are losing that flying because they can not maintain it. Why isn’t Mesa going away? Because, they are, SOME WAY, still staffing the planes they are given to fly. I think you got a hint in the last town hall. Dion wants us to take more long haul routes. My guess is that American wants to take all the most lucrative routes for its WO companies, and leave the less popular routes with smaller margins to other reagionals. That would be the schrewd move. So as for who gets the flying the WOs don’t want in the end? Who ever will accept the crappy flying and can afford to operate like that, SkyWest will probably not accept that, Republic is probably a little more in-elastic, but my guess is what ever the bosom feeder airline of the day is.

You should write them and tell them all of this.

FlyingSlowly 05-07-2018 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by TallFlyer (Post 2587641)
Yeah, all those continual gains for the last three years for all three pilot groups are great examples of that.

I deeply respect the work you do for us, my comment was not about the union...

My gripe here is certainly not with the MEC. And it wasn't meant just with regard to PSA...it's more about attitudes among the pilot groups.

At least from what I've heard, too many still seem to think that we are competing with the other regionals and even the other WOs. Not enough realize that all the WOs are basically a massive cost-savings tool for AAL. Too few realize the HUGE margins that AAL makes because of us WO pilots (or in spite of us, depending on how you look at it).

CLT is now (by the CEO's own admission) the most profitable hub of the world's largest airline. It wouldn't be that way without PSA. Pilots at PSA (along with the other WOs) need to understand what they are really worth to the parent company.

[end rant]

MaCrOs 05-08-2018 03:27 AM


Originally Posted by Skyhawkdriver34 (Post 2588520)
American only wants 590 regional aircraft

AA would gladly take as many regional aircrafts as possible, given lower operating costs vs mainline. Thankfully, scope prevents them from doing that.
Current scope agreement is for 75% of AA narrow body fleet for total number of RJs, and 40% of AA narrow body fleet for large (66 seats+) RJs.

PleaseComplete 05-08-2018 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by FlyingSlowly (Post 2588609)
Pilots need to understand what they are really worth to the parent company.

[end rant]

This.

Look at Delta's main line payscale for the CRJ 900 and look at the the pitiful wages we get.


Originally Posted by Braveheart

Why? Why is that impossible? You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshank's table that you've missed your God given right to something better. There is a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with possession. I think your possession exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it.


joseolay 05-08-2018 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by MaCrOs (Post 2588815)
AA would gladly take as many regional aircrafts as possible, given lower operating costs vs mainline.

The operating cost of regional aircraft is double what it is of mainline aircraft. AA is a publicly traded company, look it up if you don't believe me. Pilots and FAs obviously get paid less, but the overall CASM is double.


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