Originally Posted by Approach1260

Travis told everyone that the senior man provision was their idea in the last conference call we had way way back when. It was recorded, and if you haven't heard it it really is worth a listen.

More flow is certainly good, but with a silent Union that traded first officer seniority to flow to mainline faster understandably makes a lot of people uneasy.

Originally Posted by Making it Count

How exactly is the flow protected? Say I get hired at PSA and a couple years down the road something happens (economic downturn, etc). Is there something in writing stating if x happens AA doesn’t have to keep flowing pilots? Would PSA just furlough the pilots before they reach their time to flow?
Or would AA just flow them and furlough the flowing pilots somehow?
Just trying to figure out the dynamics of such event.

I keep reading two things of advice over again about regionals.
1. Live in base (PSA for DAY or Republic for IND, PSA flow is a plus)
2. Go to a regional that if something happens you wouldn’t mind staying at for an extended period of time. (Big strike against PSA for me, and would choose Republic)

Again, as someone who is not there yet I have limited knowledge on how exactly it is written in the contract or how it works so sorry if I’m completely off.

Another thing that I keep reading on various forums is this thought from some that if you depend on the flow you are some sort of hack and it shouldn’t take you that long to get into a Major so go to any regional just to get hours. Maybe so but the way the industry has been in the past I feel there are no sure things.

Where is this thought coming from that going to a Major is so easy now? Are people thinking that it’s something that is just going to happen because airlines are going to be so desperate? Maybe a I am the hack that doesn’t believe it will ever get that bad so I am putting the flow in my back pocket if possible. But if the flow can be stopped that changes the dynamic a bit.

Originally Posted by Approach1260

PSA's Union negotiating committee and MEC gave up first officer seniority and allowed pilots to be Senior Manned and "voluntarily" displaced out of base most often into a two leg commute.

They did so by signing an LOA that the pilot group was given zero notice of, and was never put up for a vote. They also allowed pilots to be Senior Manned into a closed upgrade bid.

The very concept of Senior Manning was one put forward by the Union not management.

So these days should everyone have their Captain bid in in order to try to avoid being moved out of base voluntarily? Absolutely, but it's ALPA and the MEC that put us in this position to begin with.

Originally Posted by rickshaw

JRM into CA was already in the contract. The JR FO's wouldn't have had the time anyway hence you're already in somewhat of a Sr. manning situation indirectly. Probably a contract item nobody ever thought would be a reality as new hires use to have ATP w/ 2500-500 multi and the 1000 PIC was the ticket to better, step on each other for an UPG. let's face it. It really made the most sense to get the 'most qualified' ... the failing was when the item was allowed in contract.

Originally Posted by FlyingSlowly

Please stop and think about what you're saying.

Who is more qualified, the 2500 hr pilot (with just 1000 hrs 121 at PSA) who had previously never flown anything larger than a Piper twin. Or a pilot with 6,000 hrs of 121 turbine SIC time (likely even in a CRJ) who came to PSA last week?

Do you understand which one would be junior manned and which would be a senior forced upgrade? In this comparison, the "senior" forced upgrade is not the one who is more qualified...

Originally Posted by Throwitaway

It's because the reps acted in their own personal interest instead of the best interest of the pilot group as a whole (A violation of fiduciary responsibility IMO). They took the increased flow so they could get out that much sooner but screwed the junior guys who still have 3-6 years before flow is a variable. Short sighted reactive bargaining. I empathize with the people being "voluntarily" displaced. The junior guys took a hit to QoL and the reps are packing up to be out the door without a care.

Originally Posted by Throwitaway

It's because the reps acted in their own personal interest instead of the best interest of the pilot group as a whole (A violation of fiduciary responsibility IMO). They took the increased flow so they could get out that much sooner but screwed the junior guys who still have 3-6 years before flow is a variable. Short sighted reactive bargaining. I empathize with the people being "voluntarily" displaced. The junior guys took a hit to QoL and the reps are packing up to be out the door without a care.

Originally Posted by Approach1260

While simultaneously throwing away most of our leverage to try to improve reserve or increase pay. They'll just increase the sign on bonus to get guys in the door then force them to upgrade into reserve. Where's the incentive for the company to change anything now?