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Passing on the flow Q?

Old 06-17-2019, 06:24 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by arbalist1 View Post
I'm sure round 1 is amazing. That's what I keep being told. But I'm over a year on property in CLT and it's all been reserve/round two. The last two months I've actually moved backwards on the CLT seniority list, further from round 1. I may be back to reserve for July. I haven't had more than 11 days off since I started here. But hey, once I get round 1 it'll be great for a few months before upgrade. Then it'll be CLT CA reserve for a few more years.



I'm not saying SAP isn't great, but sometimes it certainly feels like it's at the expense of a huge part of the pilot group.


I’ve been here 3.5 years and spent only 8 months on rd 1 as an FO in CLT.. trust me round 1 is worth it.. PBS will be a shot in the gut and I’ve been eating a belly full of white dog crap on reserve. You’ll be very sorry with PBS. Ya you might have a line sooner but that garbage is what you can expect for the rest of your days here. Round 1 was like a gift sent down by angels. Go ask any pilot at a major/legacy how long they were on reserve? Ask some of the regional guys here from previous carriers how long their reserve was? I think you’ll survive your 1.5 on reserve.. way too many “what ifs” with PBS.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:29 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules View Post
That’s the truth of it.



Line bidding and our SAP are the best QOL tools you could ask for. They create inefficiencies though that require the company to keep an inordinate percentage of the pilot group on reserve. So the current system is great, but it only really benefits the top half of the seniority list.



PBS wouldn’t be much of a change for the top 25% of the pilot group. You’ll still likely get all/most of what you want and there’s a good chance it could actually generate better schedules for you than what you get with our current line bidding plus SAP. The “middle 25%”, that is to say the junior line holders, will likely see a decrease in flexibility and won’t be able to get as good a schedule. And the real benefactors would be the bottom half of the seniority list who will see drastically reduced reserve times.



Overall PBS would likely be better for the pilot group as a whole. But someone is always going to be unhappy no matter what happens. PSA management wants PBS here and they’ll likely be willing to pay up to get it. Flow increasing to 1% plus a true min day and rigs, and maybe a higher percentage accelerated pay credit would be a good place to start. I’m sure we’ll know more later this year as negotiations progress.


That would be a concession in QOL giving up SAP for PBS. I didn’t think we were in the position of giving things up? We didn’t for the pay raise so why start now..
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:00 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Duck Sausage View Post
That would be a concession in QOL giving up SAP for PBS. I didn’t think we were in the position of giving things up? We didn’t for the pay raise so why start now..
You might want to re-read the Envoy MEC's letter.

We had nothing to do with getting the pay raise. It was not really a negotiation, but rather a "here's what you're getting" situation. Our management knew they had very little wiggle room to give or take, so both parties basically just agreed to work on the other issues in the future.

Edit: Does AAG want us to have 1% flow? My guess is that they do. If we wait long enough we could see the pay raise situation repeat itself, but that was 12-18 months in the making (rumor has it that AAG had "the number" more than a year ago, but our management slow rolled giving it to us for as long as they could).
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:09 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by WhiteMorpheus View Post
You might want to re-read the Envoy MEC's letter.

We had nothing to do with getting the pay raise. It was not really a negotiation, but rather a "here's what you're getting" situation. Our management knew they had very little wiggle room to give or take, so both parties basically just agreed to work on the other issues in the future.
I disagree. We screwed everyone by accepting the pay raises. It sent shockwaves throughout the industry that will be felt for generations to come. Your children’s children’s children will be asking what we were thinking.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:29 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Thedude86 View Post
I disagree. We screwed everyone by accepting the pay raises. It sent shockwaves throughout the industry that will be felt for generations to come. Your children’s children’s children will be asking what we were thinking.
It's Contract 2013 all over again.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:42 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by WhiteMorpheus View Post
It's Contract 2013 all over again.
Yep. We will never do the right thing.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:56 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Duck Sausage View Post
That would be a concession in QOL giving up SAP for PBS. I didn’t think we were in the position of giving things up? We didn’t for the pay raise so why start now..
For about 25-35% of the pilot group. The top 25% wouldn’t see a ton of change to their schedules and they could arguably be better. The bottom 40% are the ones who will benefit the most. Overall, PBS is a QOL concession for some, but for the majority it would not be.

Personally I think the goal of a regional is to get your experience and get out. If it’s a nice comfortable place to call home for a while that’s fine, but that’s not the goal. If PBS comes and they offer us 1% /month flow and other additional contract improvements I don’t see a reason not to.

Ideally you will enjoy SAP for about 4-5 years of your career. No other carrier really has anything like it in the form that the SAP at PSA exists. It’s great. It can’t be beat. But you aren’t going to have it the next 20-35 years of your career. And personally I’d rather spend more time on the seniority list at the place I’m going to spend 20-30 years building my 401K and enjoying the benefits of a REAL contract and REAL pay than I am worried about 4-5 years of SAP.

Flown increasing to 1% /month means flowing to mainline 2-3 years sooner for the most junior on the seniority list and 2-3 months sooner for those on top.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:13 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules View Post
For about 25-35% of the pilot group. The top 25% wouldn’t see a ton of change to their schedules and they could arguably be better. The bottom 40% are the ones who will benefit the most. Overall, PBS is a QOL concession for some, but for the majority it would not be.



Personally I think the goal of a regional is to get your experience and get out. If it’s a nice comfortable place to call home for a while that’s fine, but that’s not the goal. If PBS comes and they offer us 1% /month flow and other additional contract improvements I don’t see a reason not to.



Ideally you will enjoy SAP for about 4-5 years of your career. No other carrier really has anything like it in the form that the SAP at PSA exists. It’s great. It can’t be beat. But you aren’t going to have it the next 20-35 years of your career. And personally I’d rather spend more time on the seniority list at the place I’m going to spend 20-30 years building my 401K and enjoying the benefits of a REAL contract and REAL pay than I am worried about 4-5 years of SAP.



Flown increasing to 1% /month means flowing to mainline 2-3 years sooner for the most junior on the seniority list and 2-3 months sooner for those on top.


Flow can be pulled at any moment..
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:23 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Duck Sausage View Post
Flow can be pulled at any moment..
If they pull flow their regional feed begins to collapse because there will be a big exodus. And it would be literally counter to everything the industry is moving towards these days.

This career in general is a gamble. It’s a gamble to wait around at a regional waiting to flow. BUT, if you’re a civilian and your goal is AA then this is it unless you were an astronaut. The faster we can move on the more certainty we can have in a stable career. The decision boiled down to its simplest form is this:

-Do I want to have the best QOL possible while I’m at my regional for (hopefully) no more than 6-7 years at the expense of possibly being here a few years longer than I absolutely have to?

-Do I want to get out of my regional and on to what is infinitely better than SAP or anything “good” about my regional as fast as humanly possible?
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:49 AM
  #40  
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What prevents the company from building better quality/more efficient trips now?
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