PSA CRJ 200 Skids off Runway at CRW
01-25-2010, 05:05 AM
#101
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Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by joethepilot
I have to admit I didn't read the whole thread... so this may have been brought up earlier... but The FAR's say that you can use a stop way to balance your runway length for an abort (25.109). I.E. the EMAS ACTUAL length of 100 feet adds 1000 feet of "runway" length that can be used in the accelerate stop distance calculation. So if this abort was indeed initiated right at V1, the expected outcome would have been to end up in the EMAS.
01-25-2010, 08:19 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777, sofa
Posts: 1,183
Yeager Airport save 6th in U.S. for emergency-stop ... - News - The Charleston Gazette - West Virginia News and Sports
January 20, 2010
Yeager Airport save 6th in U.S. for emergency-stop system
33 people were aboard when US Airways Express jet skidded off end of runway
Chris Dorst
Skid marks that extend nearly 1,000 feet down the main runway at Yeager Airport end in the crushed concrete blocks of an Engineered Materials Arresting System overlooking downtown Charleston.
Sorry for the dumb question, but why are there 1000 ft of skid marks? A/SKID isn't MELable, or is it? But if it was MEL'd then V1 would have been reduced. And if it was functional, it would have prevented skidding for 1000 feet, right?
Not going anywhere with this other than thinking there shouldn't have been skid marks.
January 20, 2010
Yeager Airport save 6th in U.S. for emergency-stop system
33 people were aboard when US Airways Express jet skidded off end of runway
Chris Dorst
Skid marks that extend nearly 1,000 feet down the main runway at Yeager Airport end in the crushed concrete blocks of an Engineered Materials Arresting System overlooking downtown Charleston.
Sorry for the dumb question, but why are there 1000 ft of skid marks? A/SKID isn't MELable, or is it? But if it was MEL'd then V1 would have been reduced. And if it was functional, it would have prevented skidding for 1000 feet, right?
Not going anywhere with this other than thinking there shouldn't have been skid marks.
01-25-2010, 08:31 AM
#103
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,511
Maybe the CA though the brakes weren't working as they should and used emergency pneumatic brakes for which antiskid doesn't work?
/don't mean to speculate, have forgotten most of my CRJ systems and might be confusing Citation stuff
/don't mean to speculate, have forgotten most of my CRJ systems and might be confusing Citation stuff
01-25-2010, 09:24 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by AirportEngineer
EMAS is specifically exluded from ASDA calculations. It is not stopway.
Originally Posted by robthree
Yeager Airport save 6th in U.S. for emergency-stop ... - News - The Charleston Gazette - West Virginia News and Sports
January 20, 2010
Yeager Airport save 6th in U.S. for emergency-stop system
33 people were aboard when US Airways Express jet skidded off end of runway
Chris Dorst
Skid marks that extend nearly 1,000 feet down the main runway at Yeager Airport end in the crushed concrete blocks of an Engineered Materials Arresting System overlooking downtown Charleston.
Sorry for the dumb question, but why are there 1000 ft of skid marks? A/SKID isn't MELable, or is it? But if it was MEL'd then V1 would have been reduced. And if it was functional, it would have prevented skidding for 1000 feet, right?
Not going anywhere with this other than thinking there shouldn't have been skid marks.
January 20, 2010
Yeager Airport save 6th in U.S. for emergency-stop system
33 people were aboard when US Airways Express jet skidded off end of runway
Chris Dorst
Skid marks that extend nearly 1,000 feet down the main runway at Yeager Airport end in the crushed concrete blocks of an Engineered Materials Arresting System overlooking downtown Charleston.
Sorry for the dumb question, but why are there 1000 ft of skid marks? A/SKID isn't MELable, or is it? But if it was MEL'd then V1 would have been reduced. And if it was functional, it would have prevented skidding for 1000 feet, right?
Not going anywhere with this other than thinking there shouldn't have been skid marks.
01-25-2010, 02:00 PM
#106
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: G550 & CL300 PIC
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Anti-skid is disable below a certain speed too right?
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
Just b/c antisid is working doesn't mean their won't be skid marks. It just pulses the brakes. At some point the wheel is not rotating but still moving resulting in a skid mark.
Once again, they could not have aborted due to an a/skid message as all Caution messages are disabled above 70%ish N1 on the ground.
01-25-2010, 02:22 PM
#107
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 444
Originally Posted by FlyingNasaForm
10kts.
Once again, they could not have aborted due to an a/skid message as all Caution messages are disabled above 70%ish N1 on the ground.
Once again, they could not have aborted due to an a/skid message as all Caution messages are disabled above 70%ish N1 on the ground.
01-25-2010, 06:05 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 467
Anti-Skid
Here is some information on the CRJ antiskid system:
Hydro Aire Mark III Brake Control System
14 CFR 25.735 Brakes and Braking Systems (See pg. 422).
AC-25.735-1 Brakes and Braking Sytems Certification Tests and Analysis (See pg. 9).
The "accelerate-stop/accelerate-go vs. balanced field length" confusion arises because most transport category operators use balanced field length calculations located on runway analysis reports. The operator's authorization to use this method is located in their individual operations specifications.
The best definition of "balanced field length" is located in the Pilot Guide to Takeoff Safety.
winglet
Hydro Aire Mark III Brake Control System
14 CFR 25.735 Brakes and Braking Systems (See pg. 422).
AC-25.735-1 Brakes and Braking Sytems Certification Tests and Analysis (See pg. 9).
The "accelerate-stop/accelerate-go vs. balanced field length" confusion arises because most transport category operators use balanced field length calculations located on runway analysis reports. The operator's authorization to use this method is located in their individual operations specifications.
The best definition of "balanced field length" is located in the Pilot Guide to Takeoff Safety.
winglet
Last edited by winglet; 01-25-2010 at 06:20 PM.
01-26-2010, 10:00 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Just curious...how long was the runway? Max braking and TRs used during the abort?
One thing I NEVER worried about in the CRJ-200 was stopping...those brakes are MASSIVE.
One thing I NEVER worried about in the CRJ-200 was stopping...those brakes are MASSIVE.
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