USMCFLYR

Generally I gree with you on this premise, but I do believe that it is aircraft dependent (of course what isn't ).
I did teach that a double generator failure would be appropriate in certain environmental conditions. You lose ALL displays and of course the Hornet's standby instrument package is located down by your right knee and would only be lit with emergency lighting - could be very hard to fly with if caught at nighttime in bad weather for instance. Personally, I would not abort for this condition with better atmospherics.

I agree with you that a high speed abort is not a good situation, and at least in my community often lead to further problems (mishaps) than they were meant to avoid. There are very few things IMO that were worth aborting above 100kts. There were some briefed items by others that I did not agree with personally. Some would say they would abort for a Bleed Air Warning Light that didn't go out (incidentally I argued that any RED Warning light (Bleed Air of Fire) were cause for an abort). I woudld ask them about that "that didn't go out" part of the decision matrix. Just how long do you wait for that to happen before you abort?
The other was a binding controls scenario. This one was especially hard. I find it very hard to deduce that you have binding controls at 140kts when you were ready to rotate and to make that call. You had had the flight controls checked for binding with a total of 4 other procedures before starting the takeoff roll and NOW all of the sudden, at rotation speed, you deduce this problem? It is unfortunate, but in the few times I saw this scenario it was usually a problem with miscalculated TOLD data (for instance 500 round of 20mm loaded in your nose unaccounted for).

Some of this comes from personal experience too. As a student I had a high speed abort for this very reason. I thought I had aborted at around 120 kts, but the data showed that by the time I saw (what I thought) was the problem, analyzed (incorrectly) the problem, and acted - I was already at a 140kts. Luckily I only overheated the brakes and the fuse plugs on the tires blew, but it was quite a learning experience and one that I kept with me for my entire career and tired to pass on.

That is why I'm so interested in abort scenarios - both military and civilian and I look forward to reading more about this mishap. To the forum - please keep sharing your thoughts about abort scenarios - what you would and would not abort for; it is great hangar talk. Let's try to keep the "what airline do you fly for...." type of comments to a minimum.

USMCFLYR

KC10 FATboy

USMC:

I agree with you, everything is aircraft, manufacturer, company, and situation dependent. This is why aborts are so dangerous. They are split second decisions which require you to be 100% correct.

In the scenario of an hypothetical abort for an electrical or instrumentation failure in a weather situation, have you considered system interelationship?

In a previous aircraft I've flown, the dreaded "loss of all electrical power" or AC busses would render your anti-skid and thrust reversers inoperative. In other words, you're going off the end of the runway. But there were three AC busses which could share the load of the AC tie bus, so that possibility was very remote that it could ever happen.

Personally, I'm going to play the odds and follow the years of historical data from McD and Boeing. Above 80-100 knots, I'm only going to abort for fire, failure, aircraft uncapable of flight, or a windshear warning. I'm not aware of any aircrew who followed that guidance and ended up making the wrong decision.

But there's a long, long blood trail of folks who decided to go against that philosphy and the dash-1s and manuals are written in it.

xj200capt

I have 1 abort in the CRJ200. At about 75knts we got a "Config Flap" and a "Config Trim". Now I KNEW that we were configured correctly per TLR and Aerodata, but just what do you ignore? We had 7000+ feet of runway left and so I called it.

Now we all know that if the flaps and trim weren't in the correct location the config warning should have come on as soon as the thrust levers were above 79%. The fact that it didn't AND we were below 80 knts lead me to abort.

Now I was PNF/PM. I called the abort, controls transferred, and abort completed. It was kind of busy even below 80knts. I have to admit that aborting after V1 would be a cluster.

I have gotten to the point that on poor weather days to say we won't abort even lower than 80knts except for really bad things, so plan on flying.

I have no idea what caused the abort. But I'd like to know. Plus having gone into CRW, I probably wouldn't abort unless something REALLY awful happened. Definitely not a place to go over the side.

BoilerUP

I'd hope nobody would initiate an abort for anything short of a wing falling off above takeoff decision speed!

ground stop

air whisky crj 200's do not inhibit either anti-skid inop nor efis com mon.
not sure about psa's 200s.

joethepilot

This wouldn't have been in MLI or CID would it have? Didn't you hit a bird on that trip too?

joethepilot

I have to admit I didn't read the whole thread... so this may have been brought up earlier... but The FAR's say that you can use a stop way to balance your runway length for an abort (25.109). I.E. the EMAS ACTUAL length of 100 feet adds 1000 feet of "runway" length that can be used in the accelerate stop distance calculation. So if this abort was indeed initiated right at V1, the expected outcome would have been to end up in the EMAS.

xj200capt

CID.
Hit a bird over the numbers on landing. While taxiing out we had a message we dealt with for about 40 minutes. And we were trying to beat a nasty looking thunderstorm that was barreling in on the field. Plus we were coming up on min fuel.

Then just as I was inhaling to say "80 Knts" we got the bells and whistles. Time to go back to the gate.

Didn't I threaten to write you up for not pointing out the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders to me that had just gotten off American Eagle?

joethepilot

Ha Ha... no, I took the airplane after you and saw all your write ups... But an FO didn't report cheerleaders to you? I think HE should be furloughed instead of me!

FlyingNasaForm

The FCOM says that above 79%N1 and weight on wheels all amber messages are inhibited.