Attention new hires PSA and Eagle flow is BS
03-17-2014, 06:53 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by PurdueFlyer
I guess reading comprehension is a weak point at PSA.
Saw plenty of PSA people come out against the deal calling it terrible and that it would never pass. As soon as it passes all of you are rationalizing it saying it isn't that bad. Which is it?
Saw plenty of PSA people come out against the deal calling it terrible and that it would never pass. As soon as it passes all of you are rationalizing it saying it isn't that bad. Which is it?
No one said our recent TA was good. The argument people are making is this:
A. Our contract is not that bad. Is it the best? No. But it is not prohibitively poor. ONLY 2 THINGS WERE CHANGED, 12/4 and Med.. All you people were applauding us a year ago....Now our contract is terrible? Give it a rest.
B: Why go somewhere that you are "allowed" to go to by APC like XJT ,Skywest, AWAC and sit on reserve for a couple years then MAYBE upgrade in 8 when you could go to PSA, Mesa, or Compass and enjoy solid movement in the next year or two?
03-17-2014, 06:57 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by pagey
They are hiring 7 per month from AWAC? Like every month for the past year, and every month for the next 5 years?
I would believe you if you said "last month".
BS.
I would believe you if you said "last month".
BS.
And didn't I read somewhere that they are now holding guys after the 2/24 class? Pretty sure that is correct.
03-17-2014, 06:59 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by PurdueFlyer
It's going to be hilarious to watch how all those promises Parker gave you evaporate. Or when everyone everywhere ends up making it to majors just as fast as you
You better ask yourself these questions:
1. Do I have 1,000 TPIC?
2. In my present position, how fast will I get 1,000 TPIC?
3. Am I a military trained pilot with friends at all the big boy carriers?
4. Am I a 121 check airman?
Only you know the answer to the above questions.......maybe you need to make some tough decisions and quit worrying about contracts. Honestly, I wouldn't wipe my ass with any of the contracts at any of the carriers; because they are already **it.
Last edited by SimJumpSeat; 03-17-2014 at 07:00 AM. Reason: misspell
03-17-2014, 07:10 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by fosters
You know as well as I do there aren't anywhere near 7 guys a month in Airways classes. Good try though! There was one in the month I was in PHX.
And didn't I read somewhere that they are now holding guys after the 2/24 class? Pretty sure that is correct.
And didn't I read somewhere that they are now holding guys after the 2/24 class? Pretty sure that is correct.
Airways planned to run 9 classes in the first 6 months of 2014 each class planned to have 12-24 pilots.
Your information is incorrect. So yea, 7 per month between PSA/Piedmont.
PSA can only hold pilots until December of the current year, at which time all are required to be released which brings us up to our total of 48/year. This has been discussed ad nauseam.
Edit: I see now what you meant by 1....the other guys could've been on different equipment. I really don't understand why you are arguing about this? Airways is required to take 7 per month form PSA/Piedmont. It's on paper.
03-17-2014, 07:52 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by SimJumpSeat
OK little man......it's time for you to focus on yourself for a minute....stop typing. Only you know who and where you are in this "race" to a legacy.
You better ask yourself these questions:
1. Do I have 1,000 TPIC?
2. In my present position, how fast will I get 1,000 TPIC?
3. Am I a military trained pilot with friends at all the big boy carriers?
4. Am I a 121 check airman?
Only you know the answer to the above questions.......maybe you need to make some tough decisions and quit worrying about contracts. Honestly, I wouldn't wipe my ass with any of the contracts at any of the carriers; because they are already **it.
You better ask yourself these questions:
1. Do I have 1,000 TPIC?
2. In my present position, how fast will I get 1,000 TPIC?
3. Am I a military trained pilot with friends at all the big boy carriers?
4. Am I a 121 check airman?
Only you know the answer to the above questions.......maybe you need to make some tough decisions and quit worrying about contracts. Honestly, I wouldn't wipe my ass with any of the contracts at any of the carriers; because they are already **it.
There are 7,000 mainline pilots retiring in the next five years. In the next ten years more mainline pilots retire than there are regional pilots currently flying. There aren't 7,000 part 121 check airmen or miltary pilots looking to jump to the majors. Many military guys are electing to stay in these days and the military is even offering retention bonuses, like the $225,000 bonus the Air Force is offering to keep fighter pilots in. The Cold War ended 20 years ago, the military is no longer the source of pilots that it used to be.
The most important fact that your are glossing over while trying to sell PSA as the most amazing place in the world is this:
These new airplanes will not help people upgrade faster at PSA that are hired today. They will only help those that are already on property. Every regional airline is about to experience a massive amount of movement. There aren't enough PSA captains or check airmen or military guys. Hundreds of captains (and FOs) will be hired by mainlines in the coming years.
This idea (Pagey, this is for you too) that you are sentenced to 8 years of servitude at ExpressJet or SkyWest or any other reginoal is ludicrous. That is taking the past and projecting it into the future and assuming it will continue to be that way is wrong. Mainlines won't exclusively hire PSA and Mesa captains at the expense of everyone else. There have been a ton of guys getting hired everywhere. To ignore that is to ignore facts. Upgrade times will drop quickly everywhere, the numbers speak for themselves.
Buying into this notion that PSA is fantasic because of its flow is just ridiculous. It also ignores the real staffing problems that are just starting to come to fruition. Don't be surprised when your CRJ-200s are sacrificed in order to keep the -900s flying or if Airwyas reneges on their preferential interviews. It has happened in the past and they are currently with holding those pilots from interviewing right now.
The real question you have to ask yourself, knowing the retirement numbers, is if you want to perpetuate the lowest cost portion of the regional industry and make it all the more tmepting for mainline management to expand it. That is a wild card that we don't know and the past has proven that they are incredibly good at relaxing scope. So are you willing to bet the a spineless union like ALPA is capable of protecting your future mainline job? What would happen if scope gets relaxed or something else happens and mainlines shrink? Are you ready for another lost decade at a regional? There are other threats out there like Norweigian Air Shuttle, Emirates, etc.
You can keep hoping for the best, but you should always plan for the worst. Management doesn't guarantee anything with their promises, they plan for the worst as is evidenced in the PSA deal and the Eagle TA, why should we do any different.
How many of us have been promised: "You'll upgrade in 2 years time if you get on oboard with us at XYZ airline." Don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
03-17-2014, 07:56 AM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by PurdueFlyer
Ok let's look at some numbers and facts:
There are 7,000 mainline pilots retiring in the next five years. In the next ten years more mainline pilots retire than there are regional pilots currently flying. There aren't 7,000 part 121 check airmen or miltary pilots looking to jump to the majors. Many military guys are electing to stay in these days and the military is even offering retention bonuses, like the $225,000 bonus the Air Force is offering to keep fighter pilots in. The Cold War ended 20 years ago, the military is no longer the source of pilots that it used to be.
The most important fact that your are glossing over while trying to sell PSA as the most amazing place in the world is this:
These new airplanes will not help people upgrade faster at PSA that are hired today. They will only help those that are already on property. Every regional airline is about to experience a massive amount of movement. There aren't enough PSA captains or check airmen or military guys. Hundreds of captains (and FOs) will be hired by mainlines in the coming years.
This idea (Pagey, this is for you too) that you are sentenced to 8 years of servitude at ExpressJet or SkyWest or any other reginoal is ludicrous. That is taking the past and projecting it into the future and assuming it will continue to be that way is wrong. Mainlines won't exclusively hire PSA and Mesa captains at the expense of everyone else. There have been a ton of guys getting hired everywhere. To ignore that is to ignore facts. Upgrade times will drop quickly everywhere, the numbers speak for themselves.
Buying into this notion that PSA is fantasic because of its flow is just ridiculous. It also ignores the real staffing problems that are just starting to come to fruition. Don't be surprised when your CRJ-200s are sacrificed in order to keep the -900s flying or if Airwyas reneges on their preferential interviews. It has happened in the past and they are currently with holding those pilots from interviewing right now.
The real question you have to ask yourself, knowing the retirement numbers, is if you want to perpetuate the lowest cost portion of the regional industry and make it all the more tmepting for mainline management to expand it. That is a wild card that we don't know and the past has proven that they are incredibly good at relaxing scope. So are you willing to bet the a spineless union like ALPA is capable of protecting your future mainline job? What would happen if scope gets relaxed or something else happens and mainlines shrink? Are you ready for another lost decade at a regional? There are other threats out there like Norweigian Air Shuttle, Emirates, etc.
You can keep hoping for the best, but you should always plan for the worst. Management doesn't guarantee anything with their promises, they plan for the worst as is evidenced in the PSA deal and the Eagle TA, why should we do any different.
How many of us have been promised: "You'll upgrade in 2 years time if you get on oboard with us at XYZ airline." Don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
There are 7,000 mainline pilots retiring in the next five years. In the next ten years more mainline pilots retire than there are regional pilots currently flying. There aren't 7,000 part 121 check airmen or miltary pilots looking to jump to the majors. Many military guys are electing to stay in these days and the military is even offering retention bonuses, like the $225,000 bonus the Air Force is offering to keep fighter pilots in. The Cold War ended 20 years ago, the military is no longer the source of pilots that it used to be.
The most important fact that your are glossing over while trying to sell PSA as the most amazing place in the world is this:
These new airplanes will not help people upgrade faster at PSA that are hired today. They will only help those that are already on property. Every regional airline is about to experience a massive amount of movement. There aren't enough PSA captains or check airmen or military guys. Hundreds of captains (and FOs) will be hired by mainlines in the coming years.
This idea (Pagey, this is for you too) that you are sentenced to 8 years of servitude at ExpressJet or SkyWest or any other reginoal is ludicrous. That is taking the past and projecting it into the future and assuming it will continue to be that way is wrong. Mainlines won't exclusively hire PSA and Mesa captains at the expense of everyone else. There have been a ton of guys getting hired everywhere. To ignore that is to ignore facts. Upgrade times will drop quickly everywhere, the numbers speak for themselves.
Buying into this notion that PSA is fantasic because of its flow is just ridiculous. It also ignores the real staffing problems that are just starting to come to fruition. Don't be surprised when your CRJ-200s are sacrificed in order to keep the -900s flying or if Airwyas reneges on their preferential interviews. It has happened in the past and they are currently with holding those pilots from interviewing right now.
The real question you have to ask yourself, knowing the retirement numbers, is if you want to perpetuate the lowest cost portion of the regional industry and make it all the more tmepting for mainline management to expand it. That is a wild card that we don't know and the past has proven that they are incredibly good at relaxing scope. So are you willing to bet the a spineless union like ALPA is capable of protecting your future mainline job? What would happen if scope gets relaxed or something else happens and mainlines shrink? Are you ready for another lost decade at a regional? There are other threats out there like Norweigian Air Shuttle, Emirates, etc.
You can keep hoping for the best, but you should always plan for the worst. Management doesn't guarantee anything with their promises, they plan for the worst as is evidenced in the PSA deal and the Eagle TA, why should we do any different.
How many of us have been promised: "You'll upgrade in 2 years time if you get on oboard with us at XYZ airline." Don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
03-17-2014, 09:58 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by pagey
What? You think US Airways would run a new hire class with 1 person in it?
Airways planned to run 9 classes in the first 6 months of 2014 each class planned to have 12-24 pilots.
Your information is incorrect. So yea, 7 per month between PSA/Piedmont.
PSA can only hold pilots until December of the current year, at which time all are required to be released which brings us up to our total of 48/year. This has been discussed ad nauseam.
Edit: I see now what you meant by 1....the other guys could've been on different equipment. I really don't understand why you are arguing about this? Airways is required to take 7 per month form PSA/Piedmont. It's on paper.
Airways planned to run 9 classes in the first 6 months of 2014 each class planned to have 12-24 pilots.
Your information is incorrect. So yea, 7 per month between PSA/Piedmont.
PSA can only hold pilots until December of the current year, at which time all are required to be released which brings us up to our total of 48/year. This has been discussed ad nauseam.
Edit: I see now what you meant by 1....the other guys could've been on different equipment. I really don't understand why you are arguing about this? Airways is required to take 7 per month form PSA/Piedmont. It's on paper.
03-17-2014, 10:28 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 781
Purdue who do you work for? Did something happen at your current company?? If you're truly worried about the new hires (which I highly doubt) then how about you give an unbiased pros and cons instead of regurgitating the same facts over and over.
Psa's contract is fine. Quite good actually. Are you confusing the 900 TA vs our contract or do you just not care. And I highly doubt you've read awac/xjt/Skywest/psa's contract. Maybe just the highlights.
I think PSA will be a good stepping stone for new hires. If you want the top tier then goto the top tier regionals. It WILL take you longer to upgrade. One less ammunition to get you out of the rat race. This is hypothetical of course. I'm a 6 year right seater so no we're not upgrading left and right... Yet. Pretty sure that's not what I'd imagined when I signed up but it will drop faster than the current other 6-7 year upgrade regionals. If you want the fastest upgrade, goto silver/Great Lakes/CommutAir. Your pay and QOL won't be as good but you might get on majors the quickest. I think PSA is a good balance between them two tiers. Of course leaning towards upper tier and if you want the whole breakdown then PM me.
Our classes are running full with bunch of pilots jumping ship from eagle/ex comair/silver/endeavor and whatnot. What you say on these forums won't sway anyone's mind. If it does then they deserve to end up where they end up if they're going to listen to some random forum person ranting.
Psa's contract is fine. Quite good actually. Are you confusing the 900 TA vs our contract or do you just not care. And I highly doubt you've read awac/xjt/Skywest/psa's contract. Maybe just the highlights.
I think PSA will be a good stepping stone for new hires. If you want the top tier then goto the top tier regionals. It WILL take you longer to upgrade. One less ammunition to get you out of the rat race. This is hypothetical of course. I'm a 6 year right seater so no we're not upgrading left and right... Yet. Pretty sure that's not what I'd imagined when I signed up but it will drop faster than the current other 6-7 year upgrade regionals. If you want the fastest upgrade, goto silver/Great Lakes/CommutAir. Your pay and QOL won't be as good but you might get on majors the quickest. I think PSA is a good balance between them two tiers. Of course leaning towards upper tier and if you want the whole breakdown then PM me.
Our classes are running full with bunch of pilots jumping ship from eagle/ex comair/silver/endeavor and whatnot. What you say on these forums won't sway anyone's mind. If it does then they deserve to end up where they end up if they're going to listen to some random forum person ranting.
03-17-2014, 10:49 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by fosters
Airways is hiring more people from AWAC than PSA+PDT combined. Oh the irony.
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