Attention new hires PSA and Eagle flow is BS
03-17-2014, 04:15 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 298
Attention new hires PSA and Eagle flow is BS
Here is why you shouldn't go to either PSA or Eagle for the flow, simple math.
PSA:
1. It isn't a true flow through, it is a preferential interview.
2. At 4 preferential interviews per month you get 48 pilots per year. PSA is 570 pilots and adding at least an additional 300 (or trying to) for the new aircraft. That's 876 pilots. At 48 pilots per year it would take 12 years to get interviewed by AA assuming you are the 577th pilot hired. If you are the 876th pilot hired it will take you over 18 years.
Eagle:
1. This is a true flow through, no interview you just go BUT same long time applies.
2. At 30 a month (360 a year) at Eagle with a 2800 pilot airline, it would take nearly 8 years to flow. They do have that 50% provision but that is a wild card.
Other facts:
- Check the APC retirement numbers for legacies, there are thousands of pilots retiring every year. Something like nearly 7,000 in the next 5 years. There will be a ton of movement industry wide. You will upgrade quickly everywhere you go the question then becomes how poorly do you want to be treated while you are upgrading and do you want to participate in the degradation of the industry (if you go to PSA)? You can and will move on to a legacy far faster than you can ever hope to by waiting for one of these flow through deals. These deals haven't worked well in the past, Eagle being the prime example.
Think long and hard about your first job and crunch the numbers yourself, don't just listen to the recruiter when they say, "Quick upgrades, flow, shiny jets!!!!!" Ask the hard questions.
Cue Joliet and simjumpseat telling us PSA is best thing since sliced bread.....
PSA:
1. It isn't a true flow through, it is a preferential interview.
2. At 4 preferential interviews per month you get 48 pilots per year. PSA is 570 pilots and adding at least an additional 300 (or trying to) for the new aircraft. That's 876 pilots. At 48 pilots per year it would take 12 years to get interviewed by AA assuming you are the 577th pilot hired. If you are the 876th pilot hired it will take you over 18 years.
Eagle:
1. This is a true flow through, no interview you just go BUT same long time applies.
2. At 30 a month (360 a year) at Eagle with a 2800 pilot airline, it would take nearly 8 years to flow. They do have that 50% provision but that is a wild card.
Other facts:
- Check the APC retirement numbers for legacies, there are thousands of pilots retiring every year. Something like nearly 7,000 in the next 5 years. There will be a ton of movement industry wide. You will upgrade quickly everywhere you go the question then becomes how poorly do you want to be treated while you are upgrading and do you want to participate in the degradation of the industry (if you go to PSA)? You can and will move on to a legacy far faster than you can ever hope to by waiting for one of these flow through deals. These deals haven't worked well in the past, Eagle being the prime example.
Think long and hard about your first job and crunch the numbers yourself, don't just listen to the recruiter when they say, "Quick upgrades, flow, shiny jets!!!!!" Ask the hard questions.
Cue Joliet and simjumpseat telling us PSA is best thing since sliced bread.....
03-17-2014, 04:53 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,936
Actually, if you think about it, flow through will now be used as a tool to slow the departure of regional airline pilots to the major airlines.
Regional airlines that do not have any flow through agreements arranged with major airlines will lose pilots the quickest. Major airlines will turn to these carriers the most as to not upset the balance with their regional partners they have an agreement with.
Regional airlines that do not have any flow through agreements arranged with major airlines will lose pilots the quickest. Major airlines will turn to these carriers the most as to not upset the balance with their regional partners they have an agreement with.
03-17-2014, 05:06 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 428
With the lack of movement and shrinking at eagle, you would recommend someone go there and sit endless reserve flying 30 hours a month?
Isn't that what were all after here now anyway? Hours to move on. No one gives two ****s how or where you get them, that's for sure
Isn't that what were all after here now anyway? Hours to move on. No one gives two ****s how or where you get them, that's for sure
03-17-2014, 05:12 AM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by PurdueFlyer
Here is why you shouldn't go to either PSA or Eagle for the flow, simple math.
PSA:
1. It isn't a true flow through, it is a preferential interview.
2. At 4 preferential interviews per month you get 48 pilots per year. PSA is 570 pilots and adding at least an additional 300 (or trying to) for the new aircraft. That's 876 pilots. At 48 pilots per year it would take 12 years to get interviewed by AA assuming you are the 577th pilot hired. If you are the 876th pilot hired it will take you over 18 years.
Eagle:
1. This is a true flow through, no interview you just go BUT same long time applies.
2. At 30 a month (360 a year) at Eagle with a 2800 pilot airline, it would take nearly 8 years to flow. They do have that 50% provision but that is a wild card.
Other facts:
- Check the APC retirement numbers for legacies, there are thousands of pilots retiring every year. Something like nearly 7,000 in the next 5 years. There will be a ton of movement industry wide. You will upgrade quickly everywhere you go the question then becomes how poorly do you want to be treated while you are upgrading and do you want to participate in the degradation of the industry (if you go to PSA)? You can and will move on to a legacy far faster than you can ever hope to by waiting for one of these flow through deals. These deals haven't worked well in the past, Eagle being the prime example.
Think long and hard about your first job and crunch the numbers yourself, don't just listen to the recruiter when they say, "Quick upgrades, flow, shiny jets!!!!!" Ask the hard questions.
Cue Joliet and simjumpseat telling us PSA is best thing since sliced bread.....
PSA:
1. It isn't a true flow through, it is a preferential interview.
2. At 4 preferential interviews per month you get 48 pilots per year. PSA is 570 pilots and adding at least an additional 300 (or trying to) for the new aircraft. That's 876 pilots. At 48 pilots per year it would take 12 years to get interviewed by AA assuming you are the 577th pilot hired. If you are the 876th pilot hired it will take you over 18 years.
Eagle:
1. This is a true flow through, no interview you just go BUT same long time applies.
2. At 30 a month (360 a year) at Eagle with a 2800 pilot airline, it would take nearly 8 years to flow. They do have that 50% provision but that is a wild card.
Other facts:
- Check the APC retirement numbers for legacies, there are thousands of pilots retiring every year. Something like nearly 7,000 in the next 5 years. There will be a ton of movement industry wide. You will upgrade quickly everywhere you go the question then becomes how poorly do you want to be treated while you are upgrading and do you want to participate in the degradation of the industry (if you go to PSA)? You can and will move on to a legacy far faster than you can ever hope to by waiting for one of these flow through deals. These deals haven't worked well in the past, Eagle being the prime example.
Think long and hard about your first job and crunch the numbers yourself, don't just listen to the recruiter when they say, "Quick upgrades, flow, shiny jets!!!!!" Ask the hard questions.
Cue Joliet and simjumpseat telling us PSA is best thing since sliced bread.....
I wonder other than Compass, what other Regionals would like to have that carrot?
03-17-2014, 05:23 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by astec
With the lack of movement and shrinking at eagle, you would recommend someone go there and sit endless reserve flying 30 hours a month?
Isn't that what were all after here now anyway? Hours to move on. No one gives two ****s how or where you get them, that's for sure
Isn't that what were all after here now anyway? Hours to move on. No one gives two ****s how or where you get them, that's for sure
Flow is not all it is cracked up to be. That is my point to the new CFIs looking to pick they first regional.
03-17-2014, 05:28 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by PurdueFlyer
Quite the opposite. I'm not recommending anyone chase after a flow through. They don't work. People are better of getting hired elsewhere than waiting to flow. The real questions are where do you want to be if the music stops? At a place with a PSA/Mesa/GoJet style contract (or new Eagle contract IF they vote it in) or a place with a slightly better contract (all regional contracts suck). Also do you want to validate management's attempts to lower lower pay and benefits by filling classes at these regionals? That will inevitably come back to haunt you in your career as management uses regional contracts to whipsaw mainline.
Flow is not all it is cracked up to be. That is my point to the new CFIs looking to pick they first regional.
Flow is not all it is cracked up to be. That is my point to the new CFIs looking to pick they first regional.
03-17-2014, 05:38 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by astec
It's not a gem, but have you personally read the PSA contract?
Regardless of how Eagle votes, their CRJs are leaving. I would expect you'll have to and will get on your knees again to secure those planes as well.
03-17-2014, 05:46 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by PurdueFlyer
Yes, compared to Air Wisconsin, Skywest, and ExpressJet it is a piece of trash. Parker knows you guys will bend over at the drop of a hat for the promise of new aircraft so I expect him to come back and gut whatever provisions (like that scheduling swap one) you have left.
Regardless of how Eagle votes, their CRJs are leaving. I would expect you'll have to and will get on your knees again to secure those planes as well.
Regardless of how Eagle votes, their CRJs are leaving. I would expect you'll have to and will get on your knees again to secure those planes as well.
Have fun upgrading at those companies.
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