Before Considering PSA....
05-14-2015, 10:53 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Before Considering PSA....
This website is for information. Good information hopefully but most of it gets lost in the muck. It's important that pilots considering their next/first airline job know all the facts and have considered all angles of a story.
This thread isn't meant to bash PSA....although we could go down that road and there is plenty of negatives to list off. No, this thread is meant to educate potential applicants of a VERY IMPORTANT thing they are probably unaware of.
The main reason I see people going to PSA is the so called "quick upgrade". No mention is made to the shell game PSA is currently playing with their "quick upgrade". Here is how it shakes out:
The FAA requires anybody upgrading to Captain to have 1,000 hours of part 121 flying time. PSA's growth in the past year-while relatively small-was too quick for their upgrades to keep up with. Most of their FOs don't have 1,000 hours of 121 time making them unable to upgrade even though their seniority allows them to.
That means that more junior pilots who do have the 121 time jump ahead of the more senior pilots in line and upgrade. This is the root cause of the artificially low upgrade times at PSA currently....which is fine. No problem in and of itself.
However, here is where the wheels begin flying off this wagon: Vacancy/Displacement bids. If you are new to the airline world, or haven't been around for very long you probably have NO idea what this is or how it works. So here we go:
Airlines periodically put out what is known as a Displacement Bid for any number of reasons. What that means is that pilots are able to bid for any seat/equipment/base that their seniority can hold even if it DISPLACES a junior pilot out of that seat/equipment/base.
At PSA you have a number of FOs not upgrading because they lack 121 time. Pilots junior to them who have that time upgrade. 1 or 2 years later all those pilots who didn't have the time to upgrade now have 1,000 hours of 121 time. PSA then puts out a Vacancy/Displacement bid.
You can probably see how this goes: All those Captains who upgraded are now displaced back to FO. You have probably heard that PSA has already hired all their Captains about 8 months ago. You probably didn't understand what that meant exactly. Well, there you go. All those "junior" Captains at PSA currently are one displacement bid from going back to the right seat. PSA is about finished growing. In fact, they currently can't even handle anymore growth as their now infamous letter to ALPA proves.
What that spells out for the vast majority of PSA pilots is stagnation. If you are chasing that magic quick upgrade you need to know these facts before running to PSA. You are setting yourself up for tremendous amounts of grief and frustration. Remember also that at PSA currently it will take 20 years before you get the opportunity to interview at AA. The PSA apologists on this website are very new to the airline world and more than likely unaware of how this airline game works. They probably have no idea of displacement bids, what they are, or how they will affect them.
Many current Captains at PSA are on borrowed time. There are FOs senior to them who will upgrade as soon as the next displacement bid comes out sending many of those current Captains back to the Right Seat. That means that anybody going to PSA CURRENTLY will have a better chance of setting fire to an ice cube than ever upgrading at PSA. That is how the Regional game is played...it's very cyclical and PSA is on the downward swing.
Take it for what it's worth but this information needs to be out there for all of you potential new airline pilots to consider.
This thread isn't meant to bash PSA....although we could go down that road and there is plenty of negatives to list off. No, this thread is meant to educate potential applicants of a VERY IMPORTANT thing they are probably unaware of.
The main reason I see people going to PSA is the so called "quick upgrade". No mention is made to the shell game PSA is currently playing with their "quick upgrade". Here is how it shakes out:
The FAA requires anybody upgrading to Captain to have 1,000 hours of part 121 flying time. PSA's growth in the past year-while relatively small-was too quick for their upgrades to keep up with. Most of their FOs don't have 1,000 hours of 121 time making them unable to upgrade even though their seniority allows them to.
That means that more junior pilots who do have the 121 time jump ahead of the more senior pilots in line and upgrade. This is the root cause of the artificially low upgrade times at PSA currently....which is fine. No problem in and of itself.
However, here is where the wheels begin flying off this wagon: Vacancy/Displacement bids. If you are new to the airline world, or haven't been around for very long you probably have NO idea what this is or how it works. So here we go:
Airlines periodically put out what is known as a Displacement Bid for any number of reasons. What that means is that pilots are able to bid for any seat/equipment/base that their seniority can hold even if it DISPLACES a junior pilot out of that seat/equipment/base.
At PSA you have a number of FOs not upgrading because they lack 121 time. Pilots junior to them who have that time upgrade. 1 or 2 years later all those pilots who didn't have the time to upgrade now have 1,000 hours of 121 time. PSA then puts out a Vacancy/Displacement bid.
You can probably see how this goes: All those Captains who upgraded are now displaced back to FO. You have probably heard that PSA has already hired all their Captains about 8 months ago. You probably didn't understand what that meant exactly. Well, there you go. All those "junior" Captains at PSA currently are one displacement bid from going back to the right seat. PSA is about finished growing. In fact, they currently can't even handle anymore growth as their now infamous letter to ALPA proves.
What that spells out for the vast majority of PSA pilots is stagnation. If you are chasing that magic quick upgrade you need to know these facts before running to PSA. You are setting yourself up for tremendous amounts of grief and frustration. Remember also that at PSA currently it will take 20 years before you get the opportunity to interview at AA. The PSA apologists on this website are very new to the airline world and more than likely unaware of how this airline game works. They probably have no idea of displacement bids, what they are, or how they will affect them.
Many current Captains at PSA are on borrowed time. There are FOs senior to them who will upgrade as soon as the next displacement bid comes out sending many of those current Captains back to the Right Seat. That means that anybody going to PSA CURRENTLY will have a better chance of setting fire to an ice cube than ever upgrading at PSA. That is how the Regional game is played...it's very cyclical and PSA is on the downward swing.
Take it for what it's worth but this information needs to be out there for all of you potential new airline pilots to consider.
05-14-2015, 11:04 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by Skyvector
This website is for information. Good information hopefully but most of it gets lost in the muck. It's important that pilots considering their next/first airline job know all the facts and have considered all angles of a story.
This thread isn't meant to bash PSA....although we could go down that road and there is plenty of negatives to list off. No, this thread is meant to educate potential applicants of a VERY IMPORTANT thing they are probably unaware of.
The main reason I see people going to PSA is the so called "quick upgrade". No mention is made to the shell game PSA is currently playing with their "quick upgrade". Here is how it shakes out:
The FAA requires anybody upgrading to Captain to have 1,000 hours of part 121 flying time. PSA's growth in the past year-while relatively small-was too quick for their upgrades to keep up with. Most of their FOs don't have 1,000 hours of 121 time making them unable to upgrade even though their seniority allows them to.
That means that more junior pilots who do have the 121 time jump ahead of the more senior pilots in line and upgrade. This is the root cause of the artificially low upgrade times at PSA currently....which is fine. No problem in and of itself.
However, here is where the wheels begin flying off this wagon: Vacancy/Displacement bids. If you are new to the airline world, or haven't been around for very long you probably have NO idea what this is or how it works. So here we go:
Airlines periodically put out what is known as a Displacement Bid for any number of reasons. What that means is that pilots are able to bid for any seat/equipment/base that their seniority can hold even if it DISPLACES a junior pilot out of that seat/equipment/base.
At PSA you have a number of FOs not upgrading because they lack 121 time. Pilots junior to them who have that time upgrade. 1 or 2 years later all those pilots who didn't have the time to upgrade now have 1,000 hours of 121 time. PSA then puts out a Vacancy/Displacement bid.
You can probably see how this goes: All those Captains who upgraded are now displaced back to FO. You have probably heard that PSA has already hired all their Captains about 8 months ago. You probably didn't understand what that meant exactly. Well, there you go. All those "junior" Captains at PSA currently are one displacement bid from going back to the right seat. PSA is about finished growing. In fact, they currently can't even handle anymore growth as their now infamous letter to ALPA proves.
What that spells out for the vast majority of PSA pilots is stagnation. If you are chasing that magic quick upgrade you need to know these facts before running to PSA. You are setting yourself up for tremendous amounts of grief and frustration. Remember also that at PSA currently it will take 20 years before you get the opportunity to interview at AA. The PSA apologists on this website are very new to the airline world and more than likely unaware of how this airline game works. They probably have no idea of displacement bids, what they are, or how they will affect them.
Many current Captains at PSA are on borrowed time. There are FOs senior to them who will upgrade as soon as the next displacement bid comes out sending many of those current Captains back to the Right Seat. That means that anybody going to PSA CURRENTLY will have a better chance of setting fire to an ice cube than ever upgrading at PSA. That is how the Regional game is played...it's very cyclical and PSA is on the downward swing.
Take it for what it's worth but this information needs to be out there for all of you potential new airline pilots to consider.
This thread isn't meant to bash PSA....although we could go down that road and there is plenty of negatives to list off. No, this thread is meant to educate potential applicants of a VERY IMPORTANT thing they are probably unaware of.
The main reason I see people going to PSA is the so called "quick upgrade". No mention is made to the shell game PSA is currently playing with their "quick upgrade". Here is how it shakes out:
The FAA requires anybody upgrading to Captain to have 1,000 hours of part 121 flying time. PSA's growth in the past year-while relatively small-was too quick for their upgrades to keep up with. Most of their FOs don't have 1,000 hours of 121 time making them unable to upgrade even though their seniority allows them to.
That means that more junior pilots who do have the 121 time jump ahead of the more senior pilots in line and upgrade. This is the root cause of the artificially low upgrade times at PSA currently....which is fine. No problem in and of itself.
However, here is where the wheels begin flying off this wagon: Vacancy/Displacement bids. If you are new to the airline world, or haven't been around for very long you probably have NO idea what this is or how it works. So here we go:
Airlines periodically put out what is known as a Displacement Bid for any number of reasons. What that means is that pilots are able to bid for any seat/equipment/base that their seniority can hold even if it DISPLACES a junior pilot out of that seat/equipment/base.
At PSA you have a number of FOs not upgrading because they lack 121 time. Pilots junior to them who have that time upgrade. 1 or 2 years later all those pilots who didn't have the time to upgrade now have 1,000 hours of 121 time. PSA then puts out a Vacancy/Displacement bid.
You can probably see how this goes: All those Captains who upgraded are now displaced back to FO. You have probably heard that PSA has already hired all their Captains about 8 months ago. You probably didn't understand what that meant exactly. Well, there you go. All those "junior" Captains at PSA currently are one displacement bid from going back to the right seat. PSA is about finished growing. In fact, they currently can't even handle anymore growth as their now infamous letter to ALPA proves.
What that spells out for the vast majority of PSA pilots is stagnation. If you are chasing that magic quick upgrade you need to know these facts before running to PSA. You are setting yourself up for tremendous amounts of grief and frustration. Remember also that at PSA currently it will take 20 years before you get the opportunity to interview at AA. The PSA apologists on this website are very new to the airline world and more than likely unaware of how this airline game works. They probably have no idea of displacement bids, what they are, or how they will affect them.
Many current Captains at PSA are on borrowed time. There are FOs senior to them who will upgrade as soon as the next displacement bid comes out sending many of those current Captains back to the Right Seat. That means that anybody going to PSA CURRENTLY will have a better chance of setting fire to an ice cube than ever upgrading at PSA. That is how the Regional game is played...it's very cyclical and PSA is on the downward swing.
Take it for what it's worth but this information needs to be out there for all of you potential new airline pilots to consider.
05-14-2015, 11:04 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 742
Originally Posted by Skyvector
This thread isn't meant to bash PSA.....
Whatever, dude.
So what's the answer, from your high post? If not PSA, where should pilots go, in order to start their 121 careers? Delta?
05-14-2015, 11:09 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by PSAJOBS
Your last line is the only thing accurate. Take it for what it's worth. Nothing........ Flame bait.
Tell you what, disprove anything I said. Explain how a displacement bid won't bump Captains back to FOs. Go ahead...we are all waiting.
You are a sick and demented person. In a seniority based industry such as ours you consciously lead applicants astray to serve as reserve/furlough fodder at PSA while promising them the world. In a perfect world people like you would be thrown in jail for screwing up people's careers. Thankfully there are websites where the TRUTH can be put out.
Go ahead and disprove anything I said, otherwise run back to your lair.
05-14-2015, 11:12 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 462
Looks like this primarily affects prior 121 guys jumping over to PSA for a quick upgrade. Which I can see how they would get displaced at some point if growth/attrition stopped, and the senior FO's decided they wanted to upgrade during the vacancy.
For a zero time 121 hire, how exactly would this play out? Looks to me, if I were to get on board in the next few months, as an FO, that even if someone junior to me upgraded, once I got the 1000hrs and a bid opened, I would then bump any CA hired after me back, either down a CA spot, or perhaps down to FO position. Correct? Just making sure I don't get on board and sit FO forever. By the way, I'm not rushing the upgrade, but also don't want to spend forever as an FO.
For a zero time 121 hire, how exactly would this play out? Looks to me, if I were to get on board in the next few months, as an FO, that even if someone junior to me upgraded, once I got the 1000hrs and a bid opened, I would then bump any CA hired after me back, either down a CA spot, or perhaps down to FO position. Correct? Just making sure I don't get on board and sit FO forever. By the way, I'm not rushing the upgrade, but also don't want to spend forever as an FO.
05-14-2015, 11:19 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by badtransam97
Looks like this primarily affects prior 121 guys jumping over to PSA for a quick upgrade. Which I can see how they would get displaced at some point if growth/attrition stopped, and the senior FO's decided they wanted to upgrade during the vacancy.
For a zero time 121 hire, how exactly would this play out? Looks to me, if I were to get on board in the next few months, as an FO, that even if someone junior to me upgraded, once I got the 1000hrs and a bid opened, I would then bump any CA hired after me back, either down a CA spot, or perhaps down to FO position. Correct? Just making sure I don't get on board and sit FO forever. By the way, I'm not rushing the upgrade, but also don't want to spend forever as an FO.
For a zero time 121 hire, how exactly would this play out? Looks to me, if I were to get on board in the next few months, as an FO, that even if someone junior to me upgraded, once I got the 1000hrs and a bid opened, I would then bump any CA hired after me back, either down a CA spot, or perhaps down to FO position. Correct? Just making sure I don't get on board and sit FO forever. By the way, I'm not rushing the upgrade, but also don't want to spend forever as an FO.
That means you are at the back of a very long line. Even when you hit 1,000 hours of 121 time there will be no Captain vacancy for you. Remember that airlines only require X amount of Captains at any given time. They don't upgrade people out of the goodness of their hearts. Anybody who will upgrade to Captain at PSA has already been hired almost a year ago. I mentioned that in my original post and explained why and how it works.
05-14-2015, 11:19 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: CL65
Posts: 955
Originally Posted by PSAJOBS
Your last line is the only thing accurate. Take it for what it's worth. Nothing........ Flame bait.
Since a large number of posts on APC seem to be aimed at targeting PSA and attempting to get pilots not to come here, can't that be considered damaging to the company. This should be enough for a lawsuit, or at least an injunction against the site and the people on it.
Most of this information is pure garbage, with no factual base whatsoever, yet the moderators put up with it. Someone needs to draw the line.
05-14-2015, 11:22 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by CLT Guy
Intentionally posting misinformation on the internet has been considered libel and courts have granted for the plaintiff in cases where people spread false and damaging information about a company. Both the people who wrote the posts, as well as the forums that host the posts, have been found to be at fault.
Since a large number of posts on APC seem to be aimed at targeting PSA and attempting to get pilots not to come here, can't that be considered damaging to the company. This should be enough for a lawsuit, or at least an injunction against the site and the people on it.
Most of this information is pure garbage, with no factual base whatsoever, yet the moderators put up with it. Someone needs to draw the line.
Since a large number of posts on APC seem to be aimed at targeting PSA and attempting to get pilots not to come here, can't that be considered damaging to the company. This should be enough for a lawsuit, or at least an injunction against the site and the people on it.
Most of this information is pure garbage, with no factual base whatsoever, yet the moderators put up with it. Someone needs to draw the line.
Do you even understand what a displacement bid is and how it works? These are FACTS. I'm sorry these are FACTS you didn't understand before going to work for PSA but that is the point of this thread. To educate people before they make a very important decision.
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